The Hills' Hypnosis Sessions

Betty and Barney Hill Hypnosis Transcripts

                                    Hypnosis Session 1

                                     February 22, 1964

                                           Barney Hill

© Kathleen Marden 2023

All photo and textual rights reserved under the Pan-American and International Copyright Conventions. 

No part of this may be copied or published.

Betty and Barney Hill underwent ten hypnosis sessions (five each), separately, with amnesia reinstated at the end of each session. 

 Barney recalls the details of his trip and his private thoughts from the evening of September 18, 1961- September 19, 1961.  This includes his motel stay, his drive through Montreal, lower Quebec, Vermont, and the White Mountains of New Hampshire.  Barney has undergone a three-week long conditioning period to prepare him for Dr. Simon’s unique form of hypno-analysis.

This is the same method that Dr. Simon employed to gain a renowned reputation for in his treatment of World War II combat neurosis patients.  His work was documented in the movie, Let There be Light, directed by John Huston.  Dr. Simon did not believe that extraterrestrial craft were real. 

Prior to Barney’s close, consciously recalled encounter, he was convinced that the earth was not being visited by alien life forms. He hoped that Dr. Simon could provide a prosaic explanation for his extraordinary memories.  However, two hours of missing time, his conscious recall of turning off onto a secondary road, a strange roadblock, a red-orange orb on the ground, physical evidence of scraped shoe tops, a broken binocular strap, magnetic shiny half dollar size circles on the car’s trunk, and a breakthrough memory of creatures in the road had caused him in experience extreme distress. These memories troubled him so deeply that he was hospitalized with life-threatening bleeding ulcers.

 He hoped that through Dr. Simon’s expert treatment, his emotionally induced symptoms would recede, and his life could return to normal. He was a loving husband, a father of two sons, a veteran of WWII, a devoted church member, a civil rights leader,  community activist, and an employee at the U.S. Post Office. 

 As we begin this session, Betty and Barney have traveled to Dr. Simon’s office in Boston’s Back Bay. Dr. Simon was nearly at the end of a long, highly successful career. In fact, he had already retired when he agreed to see Betty and Barney Hill. Barney had been referred to Dr. Simon and Betty accompanied him to his consultation in December 1963. He accepted Barney as his primary patient, but Betty requested hypnosis as well. He interviewed the Hills and finally agreed to see each of them separately. To ensure that their memories would not be contaminated, he reinstated amnesia at the end of each session.                                                        

Barney’s first session begins:

 Dr. Simon: February 22, 1964. This will be the beginning of the examinations of Mr. and Mrs. Barney Hill under hypnosis with respect to a UFO encounter in the White Mountains of New Hampshire on September 19th and 20th, 1961. Now, Mr. Hill, we're going to proceed with the study of your experiences back in 1961. You understand that we're going to record all of this, and the recording will be mine.

 Later, the hypnosis recordings became the joint property of Dr. Simon and The Hills. Late in her life Betty gave the hypnosis tapes to me, the trustee of her estate, and asked me not to share them because they are protected medical recordings. I have used my discretion to release my comparative analysis of their statements in my DVD In Their Own Words. However, I have protected private information of a personal or sexual nature.

 Barney Hill: Yes.

 Dr. Simon: All right then, trance, Barney. Go deeper and deeper, deeper asleep…far asleep.  Deeper and deeper, fully relaxed, all muscles are relaxed…deeper and deeper-deeper asleep; deep asleep. When I touch your head, your right arm will become rigid like a bar of steel, rigid. It cannot bend or relax; very rigid. Now when I touch the top of your hand you will lose all sensation. You will not feel this pin, no pain whatever. Now as I stroke your hand the sensation becomes normal. The arm relaxes. You go deeper and deeper and deeper. Now you are in a very deep sleep. Your memory is now sharp, very sharp. You will remember everything, everything that has occurred; all of your experiences, thoughts, and feelings. You will not be anxious or distressed but you will remember everything, and you will tell me everything. I want you to go back now to your vacation in 1961 where you went to Montreal. Is that right?

 Barney Hill: Yes.

 Dr. Simon: Tell me in full detail all of your experiences, thoughts, and all of your feelings beginning when you left your hotel; were you in Montreal?

 Barney Hill: We did not stay in Montreal. We stayed in a motel in another city.

 Dr. Simon: Yes, where did you stay?

 Barney Hill: I can't seem to remember.

 Dr. Simon: It was near Montreal?

Barney Hill: It was approximately 112 miles from Montreal.

 Dr. Simon: Is there any reason that you can't remember it?

 Barney Hill: We arrived at night, and I did not notice any name at the motel.  

 Dr. Simon: Do you know what the city was?

 Barney Hill: It was out in the country. We had been driving from Niagara Falls, Canada.

 Dr. Simon: Keep right on. Tell me about your arrival there--everything that you remember.  And you will remember everything. 

 Barney Hill: In this small area we did not see any town marks and my car was making a lot of noise.  It was Betty's car that we were driving. I was driving the car. We stopped at a service station, and they told me the car had not been properly greased. So, they greased the car, and this eliminated this noise.  We then decide we could not continue to Montreal, and that we should look for a place to stay overnight. And that's when I saw this motel and did not pay any attention to the name. The thought that was going through my mind was, "would they accept me?" Because when they say that they were filled up and I wonder if they were doing this because I was prejudiced. 

 Dr. Simon: Because you were prejudiced?

 Barney Hill: They were prejudiced.

 Dr. Simon: Because you're a Negro?

 Barney Hill: Because I'm a Negro.

 Dr. Simon: You've run into that before I take it?

 Barney Hill: I have not actually ever run into being denied access to any place of accommodation.

 Dr. Simon: You just worry about it?

 Barney Hill: I do know this does happen and I was concerned because I was getting quite tired. This place… they immediately accepted me.  It cost us $12.00 for the two of us and we stayed overnight. 

 Dr. Simon: Did you express your concerns to your wife, and does she share them? 

Barney Hill: She does not share my concerns about this matter. 

 Dr. Simon: Do you express them to her, or do you keep them to yourself?

 Barney:  I do express them to her.

 Dr. Simon: Did you on that night?

 Barney Hill: I did not. I never express them to her when we are actually seeking a place.

 Dr. Simon: I see. All right, go on.

 Barney Hill: We had our little dog with us, and we were told that it was a nice little Dachshund-dash hound type dog and that we could have her in the motel unit. The next morning, we got up bright and early. There was a restaurant across the street, and we decided to eat breakfast. I had my favorite….ham, eggs…….coffee. We then are driving along this wide highway.  It’s a new road.  It’s a beautiful road.  It has four lanes in certain sections.  I am coming to Montreal, and I do not particularly like the thought of staying there. 

 Dr. Simon: Why not? 

 Barney Hill: It's a big city. There's much confusion. There are many trucks on the road.  There's quite an amount of traffic. I don't want to stay in Montreal with all of this traffic.  I have difficulty keeping the highway route number I want. And I approach the city from a different direction than I thought I should (have) on the map. There was a fork in the road, and I see a lot of children standing there on the mounds. And I miss the pleasant drive of the countryside. This is like coming into another big city. I never have liked driving in big cities. I pull over to the side and I ask Betty where are we? Can we see ourselves positioned on the map? And I see my mistake by this fork, and I had continued to the right when I should have made a very sharp left turn, which would have brought me into the city in a different way. Finally, I am in the city and I'm looking for St. Katherine's Street.

Dr. Simon: Why?

 Barney Hill: I had seen advertisements that St. Katherine's Street has many clubs and if we do intend to stay, we can possibly visit some of these clubs.

Dr. Simon: What are they? 

Barney Hill: They are nightclubs and I know this would be something different to see.  I notice on the small portion of the map of Montreal City how I can find St. Catherine's Street. (The Hills did not have a detailed city map) There's a robbery. A bank has been robbed and there is much confusion on the street.  I pull over to the side and I'm looking at the beautiful buildings and the girls that are walking down the street and I compare them with New York. The fashions are much superior to the fashions in New York City.  The girl's hair—the hair on their head is coiffured, they're stylishly dressed, and I'm enjoying looking at them.

Dr. Simon: Is your wife with you?

Barney Hill: Yes, my wife is with me.

Dr. Simon: And the dog?

Barney Hill: And the dog is with me. And I am parked by the side, and we are admiring the buildings, and we are both talking about the way the women are dressed, and how stylish Montreal is. I have to get back out into the traffic again, and I am reluctant to do this.  But I must do it. And I locate St. Katherine's Street and it's like any typical street.  Traffic is everywhere and I decide that we should find a motel if we are going to stay overnight. To my chagrin, all motels are located quite a distance—or to me a distance from the city. And we're riding around, and I'm lost. I see a few Negroes and I'm amazed.  I had not realized that there were Negroes in Montreal. I am quite a distance from the downtown section and all of the buildings are wrought iron-like stairways on the outside of the buildings. And I pull over to a service station and I ask how I can get back to my route. He doesn't understand me, and he suggests that I go around to the side to the men's room. He points in that direction, and I realize that he doesn't understand English. So, I put $2.00 worth of gas in the car and drive off. I locate a policeman directing traffic.

Dr. Simon: Why did you put $2.00 worth of gas in the car instead of filling it?

Barney Hill: I did not want gas.

Dr. Simon: I see.

Barney Hill: When I stopped to ask directions...

Dr. Simon: In other words, you felt you ought to repay them. Is that it?

Barney Hill: I thought I should do something. And I pulled over to the side and I asked a policeman how I could find, I keep thinking, Route 3 and he does speak English very haltingly with a strong accent. But he does give me the directions. I'm passing by a beautiful school. It’s a Catholic school. I see the priest out there. It has beautiful rolling grounds and it’s sitting up on a hill—a very beautiful school in Montreal. And again, I miss my turn to the right, but I'm not too concerned. I know I can continue straight and make another complete right turn and I'll be back on the street I want.

The cars are driving all over, and I think we want to get out of the city as quickly as possible. I make my right turn, and then I make my left turn, and I see my bridge that I want, and I get to the bridge. I pay a 25 cent toll and I leave the city.

I see signs…we are getting hungry. I am hungry. And the signs are advertising food. I cannot read it; it's in French. We decide to stop. We're out in the country. They have rest… not restaurants, but diners…roadside places to eat, but I decide the traffic is still too congested, and it's about the hour that most people are getting off from work. I want to avoid this as much as possible and put distance between me and the city of Montreal.  And so, I do not stop at these places.  I know it is approximately an hour later I stop in a very quiet roadside spot.  It's a typical spot.  You just walk there up to a ……I've got the picture in my mind…….It's just hard to explain it. It's just a roadside stand. They do not speak any English and they think my wife is French. They try to find out is she is French, and they seem it is puzzling that she cannot understand them. But finally, we do get a hot dog and go out around the side of the house, of this roadside stand. I take the little dog out of the car and feed her bits of the food. She's happy to walk around and wag her tail. It is about 5:30 and I want to be on my way.

 Dr. Simon: Is it 5:30 in the morning or in the evening?

 Barney Hill: In the evening. I plan to travel as far as I can, and if I'm too tired, we'll stop in New Hampshire in the mountains, and if I am not too tired, we will continue on to Portsmouth.

Then I see many places that are selling apples.  There are apples everywhere and I want to stop and get a………I say I'll stop at the next place because I am making such good traveling distance, time. But I don't stop, and I see huge mountains, and I think that I'm going to have to drive through all of these mountains because even when I get to New Hampshire, I will be in mountain areas, and I don't like that.

 Dr. Simon: Do you fear mountains, do you or what?

 Barney Hill: I don't fear mountains. Usually, mountains are desolate and it's difficult to find a place to stay.  I'm concerned that I want to get past the mountains. There were only farms. I see a beautiful small city; it's not a city. It's a resort. I am not too tired to stop, yet I think when I check my map, this would not be a bad place to stop and to continue to drive to Portsmouth the next morning. But I drive past. This used to be typical, but since I have been married to Betty I stop whenever she asks me to.  When I drive by myself any distance I keep wanting to stop at the next restaurant, the next diner, the next gas station, but I'm driving fast, and I don't stop. I go through this resort town.  I make… it's a puzzling place. I see where I want to go.  It doesn't look like what it should look like on my map. I continue. It's a narrow type of road in this city. Cars are coming in both directions and finally I pass that. I'm glad.

It's getting dark. I know I can reach Vermont on Route 114, and then it is a short distance to New Hampshire. The countryside is very quiet, a house, and I keep thinking if anything happened could I go up to any of these houses and make my wishes known?  If I would need assistance and I keep thinking how friendly the houses look.

 Dr. Simon: How do the houses look?

 Barney Hill: Friendly. And I keep driving. I am concerned about going through Customs.  

 Dr. Simon: Why?

 Barney Hill: I have a gun in the trunk of the car.

 Dr. Simon: What sort of gun?

Barney Hill: It's a 32 pistol and it is hidden in the well of the trunk of the car with the trunk mat over it. Why did I do this?  Why did I bring this gun?  I know it is that I believe in the hostility of white people, particularly when there is an interracial couple. And yet, I could not get to the gun if any hostility did occur. 

Dr. Simon: Had you hidden it there when you took it up with you, in the same place?

Barney Hill. Yes, I left Portsmouth in the morning, about 5 o'clock. It was dark and I secreted the gun in the trunk. 

Dr. Simon: Go on. It is all sharp and clear.

Barney Hill: The Canadian Customs building did not look at my car; just the dog and we had papers proving that we had brought the dog into Canada. And he waved us on pleasantly, but the American Customs asked me to open the trunk and he looked at our equipment and he said, "What is this?" and I said, “Many times when we are on the highway we will stop and cook our food.  This is our cooking equipment.” He said, "A good idea, and I hope your trip was pleasant” and he waved us on.  It was humorous because he asked my wife repeatedly where she was born, but when I said I was born in Virginia, he accepted this without any further questioning, and I could tell that I had no trouble getting past customs whenever I am in Canada.

Dr. Simon: Was this your first trip to Canada?

 Barney Hill: I had been to Canada in 1954 with my two boys and their mother by my previous marriage and we entered into America in (*unintelligible), New York.  My eyes keep wanting to open.

Dr. Simon: Why?

Barney Hill: I don't know.  114…  It's dark, it's not a good road, but it's a short distance to New Hampshire, and I see the signs for Colebrook. It is welcome. I feel alert. I feel that my trip is over, and I am on Route 3, and I see Route 3 to the left, and the right and straight-ahead. And I become confused, and I realize I want to go straight, not to the left. And I decide to stop and look at the map and I turn around and I go back to a restaurant I had passed, and I park, and we go in.

There is a dark skinned woman in there I think dark by Caucasian standards, and I wonder "Is she a light skinned Negro or is she Indian or is she white?” (*She was a native American woman who had worked there for many years.) And she waits on us and she is not very friendly, and I notice this, and others are there, and they are looking at me and at Betty. And they seem to be friendly or pleased, but this dark skinned woman doesn’t, and I wonder if she is Negro, and she is wondering if I know and she is passing for white.

I eat a hamburger and I become impatient with Betty to drink her coffee so we can get started, and the clock on the wall says five minutes after ten, and I know we'll be in Portsmouth, I think by 2 o'clock.

Dr. Simon: Did you say just a while ago that it was one ten or one fifteen?

Barney Hill: Route 114. 

Dr. Simon: I see. All right.

Barney Hill: I am, I see very dark, there's no traffic and Betty has asked me to stop the  car and let Delsey out. Delsey is the dog.

Dr. Simon: Why is she named Delsey?

Barney Hill: I think that the people that owned her before called her Schultze and Betty called her Delsey, and this became her name.

Dr. Simon: I see. Go on. You stopped to take Delsey out.

Barney Hill: I keep going back to Canada. (*In his thoughts.) I stop in Coaticook, Canada.  And I decide to eat, and we go into… I cannot get close to the restaurant, so I park on the street, and we must walk to the restaurant. Everybody on the street, passing us by, is looking and we go into this restaurant, and all eyes are upon us. I see what I call the stereotype of the hoodlum with the ducktail haircut, and I immediately go on guard against any hostility, and no one says anything to me. And the waitress speaks very little English. We tap out what we think we want on the menu, and we are served.

Dr. Simon: Now, this other restaurant that you are in…where you had this dark-skinned woman. Was that in Canada?

 Barney Hill: That was in Colebrook, New Hampshire.

 Dr. Simon: Now how was it that you went back to Canada? Was this a memory you were having again?

 Barney Hill: I just went back. (*In his thoughts, not in person.)

 Dr. Simon: I see. Go ahead.

 Barney Hill: I went back because when Betty was telling me to stop the car, when we left Colebrook, New Hampshire, and we are now in the country part of New Hampshire, I was thinking of Coaticook and that I should get a hold of myself, and not think that everyone is hostile. Or rather, suspect hostility when there is no hostility there. And it was a very pleasant restaurant, and the people were friendly, and I wonder why this is so important to why was I ready to be defensive just because these boys were wearing a style of haircut?

 Dr. Simon: Tell me, did you actually go back to Canada from Colebrook or….

 Barney Hill: No, I was thinking of that when I was in New Hampshire, when Betty asked me to stop and let the dog go for a walk. 

Dr. Simon: Oh. Good. 

Barney Hill: That's when my thoughts went back.  And I think I will stop. I will stop. She's not squirming; she's still under the seat. And I don't see a spot to stop, and I have passed several places I could have pulled off safely from the main highway.  But, I say, “Well I will stop at the next one.” And I have not stopped, and Betty said, "Look, there's a star moving."  And I look and I see a star.  It's funny, but I say Betty, “That's a satellite.  We are seeing a satellite.” And then, I pull over to the side of the road and Betty jumped out on her side with the binoculars, and I got the chain, and I hooked it to the dog on her collar and say, "Come on Delsey. Let's get out." And she jumps out and I look toward the sky, and I look back at Delsey and walk her around to the trunk of the car, and I'm saying, "Hurry up, Betty, so I can get a look." And Betty passes the binoculars to me, and I see that this is not a satellite. It is an airplane. It is an airplane you can see…I think you can see the rows of windows, and it is an airplane. And I tell Betty this, and hand the binoculars back to her, and I am satisfied. 

The Hills' first observational stop by the Mount Cleveland Picnic Area

Dr. Simon: What kind of a plane was it? 

Barney Hill: I look, and it is to the right, and it does not go where I thought it would go. It does not go past me to my right shoulder. I think it will pass my right shoulder off in a distance to the north. I am facing west, and my right is to the north, and it does not go to the north. 

Dr. Simon: Does it have propellers? 

Barney Hill: I think, "This is strange." I cannot tell. I cannot hear a motor. I know that it has propellers. 

Dr. Simon: Was your engine running? 

Barney Hill.  My engine was running.  

Dr. Simon: How about the noise that it was making before you had it greased? 

Barney Hill: It was not making this noise and I did not pay attention to my engine running.  I was concerned that it would not cut-off, while I was standing there with all of the lights on to the car, and the battery run down. And I was concerned, and I looked at the exhaust and I could tell that the smoke was still coming from the exhaust. 

Dr. Simon: From the exhaust of… 

Barney Hill: My car. So, I did not concern myself too much after that. And this object, that was a plane, was not a plane. It was…Oh, it was funny.  It was coming around toward us. I looked up and down the road and I thought how dark it is. What if a bear was to come out and I returned to the car and say, "Let's go Betty. It's nothing but a plane. They're coming over this way. They've changed course. It is a piper cub." And I drive. 

(*Before Barney walked Delsey, he retrieved his gun from the trunk of his car because he feared the presence of bears in this picnic area.) 

Dr. Simon: A piper cub would have one or two windows in it, wouldn't it?  You said you saw windows.

Barney Hill: This is what I said. This is what I saw when I returned to my car…a piper cub. 

Dr Simon: You saw a piper cub.  

Barney Hill: I drive, and Betty is still looking, and she says, "Barney that is not a plane.  It is still following us." And I stop and I look, and I see it is still out there off in a distance. So, I search for a place to pull off the road.  I see a dirt road to the right of the main highway, and I think this one is a good place where I can pull off.  If any car comes it won't strike me.  And I get out of the car, and I am thinking this is strange, because it is still there and Betty said, I think she said…I am mad with her. I said I believe Betty is trying to make me think this is a flying saucer.  

Dr. Simon: All right. Let's stop right there for now. Until I speak to you again you will not hear any sound. You will be comfortable and relaxed. Rest comfortably until I speak to you again. (pause) You think Betty is trying to make you think this is a flying saucer. 

Barney Hill: I'm wondering, “Why doesn't it go away?” And I stop and I look again, and I see where it has gone up ahead of us on Canon Mountain, and I think when I get past the Old Man in the Mountain, it will be a good area to look to see this thing. I am going to report it. 

Dr. Simon: Do you still think it was a piper cub? 

Barney Hill: I am wondering if these pilots are military, and they shouldn't do that. They shouldn't do that. They will make a person have an accident by flying around like that.  And what if they drive at me? The military shouldn't do that. 

Dr. Simon: Was it a single engine plane? 

Barney Hill: I do not know. 

Dr. Simon: You still saw no propellers anywhere? 

Barney Hill: I saw no propellers.  

Dr. Simon: Was it light enough to see?     

Barney Hill: There is a light moving through the sky, and I hear no noise, and I think, “This is ridiculous and Betty it is not a flying saucer. What are you doing that for? You want to believe in this thing, and I don't.” And it still is there, and I wish I could pass a state trooper or someone. This is dangerous. 

Dr. Simon: What was the danger? 

Barney Hill: I am thinking of bathing in French Creek with my two boys, and this plane came overhead and dove straight for us and pulled up just a few inches from the state park. 

Dr. Simon: At French Creek? 

Barney Hill: In Pennsylvania; French Creek, Pennsylvania. 

Dr. Simon: Was that a piper cub? 

Barney Hill: It was a jet plane; a fighter plane and I feel it in my chest. The explosion when it went up in the air again and I feel like I'm bursting. I think of that, and I become angry with this plane that is flying around, that it might do that. It was a frightening sound—the boom. 

Dr. Simon: The jet that is at French Creek? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Now, if there is any sound from the piper cub, you can hear it now. 

Barney Hill: I can't hear any sound. 

Dr. Simon: No sound whatever? 

Barney Hill: And I want to hear a jet. Oh, I want to hear a jet so badly. 

Dr. Simon: Why do you want to hear a jet? 

Barney Hill: Because Betty is making me angry because she is saying, "Look at that. It's strange. It's not a plane. Look at it."  And I keep thinking, “It's got to be, and I want to hear a hum. I want to hear a motor.” 

Dr. Simon: How far away was it? 

Barney Hill: It was, oh it wasn't far. It was about 1,000 feet, I guess. 

Dr. Simon: A thousand feet? If it were a piper cub, do you think it would have been silent at that distance? 

Barney Hill: I do not. I know it is not a piper cub. 

Dr. Simon: How do you happen to know so much about piper cubs? 

Barney Hill: I thought it was a piper cub because I had seen piper cubs landing on the water at Lake Winnipesaukee. And I've seen them landing on the ice and I stopped my car and said, "Look, there's another one." And we enjoyed watching these planes. I knew I was in the mountain area where I had seen piper cubs flying, and I thought this was a piper cub. 

Dr. Simon: All right. 

Barney Hill: It was not. It was too fast. It moved too fast. It would go up and down and it could go back so fast. It could go away and come back.  

Dr. Simon: Did it go back and forth, or did it go in circles like a plane does? 

Barney Hill: It would go toward the west, and without looking as if it turned, it would come straight back. I think of a paddle with the ball on a rubber. You hit the ball and the ball goes straight out, and comes straight back, without a circle. And I think that only a jet could fly that fast, and I am hoping that I can find a good place where I can stop and really see this thing, whatever it is. I see a wigwam and I recognize this place and I feel safe. I am no longer in the barren hostility of this wooded area. 

Dr. Simon: What is this place? 

Barney Hill: It is Indian Head.  I have been there before and I feel comforted that I see a familiar place, and I think I won’t get a good look at this because Betty was very annoyed.  She was annoyed by telling me, "Look!" and I can't look; I have to drive the car. 

Dr. Simon: Did you think she was serious? 

Barney Hill: I knew she was serious. 

Dr. Simon: She was excited? 

Barney Hill: And I knew Betty only becomes excited, rarely. She does not get involved, like I do, emotionally, as quickly, so this angered me because I knew she was excited, and it would have to be something making her excited. 

Dr. Simon: You said you thought she was trying to make you believe this was a flying saucer. Had you talked about flying saucers? 

Barney Hill: No. We…had this ever? When?  Well, I think, Yes,  we talked about flying saucers, and no one said anything conclusive, except they might exist. Betty said she believed in them.  

Dr. Simon: She did believe in them?  

Barney Hill: I felt that….believed that ….it wasn't that important. I didn't believe in them. 

Dr. Simon: But she did. 

Barney Hill: Yes, Betty did believe in flying saucers. 

Dr. Simon: Did she have any reason for believing in them? 

Barney Hill: I am thinking of visiting her mother and father in Kingston, New Hampshire, and they live in a nice quiet area. Only three houses--her two sisters and her mother are located there, and at night you can look at the sky and you see millions of stars, and I think how beautiful this is. And we were talking about satellites. The Russians have sent up Sputnik and her father was talking about Sputnik, and you could see it there in this spot at certain hours.  We began talking about flying…….We did not talk about that. We talked about life on other planets. And then Betty's sister said she had seen an object flying; long and cigar shaped and smaller objects going to it and flying away from it. And I listened, and I did not criticize. I thought nothing. I just listened. And I was indifferent to the conversation.  So, we did talk about flying saucers. But I had not talked about flying saucers since 1957 when we were talking about Sputnik.  This was 1961.  

Dr. Simon: Well, we're back in "61" now.  And you are looking for a place where you can stop and look at this, and Betty has been constantly egging you on. 

Barney Hill: I want to wake up. 

Dr. Simon: You are not going to wake up.  You are in a deep sleep, you're comfortable, relaxed. This is not going to trouble you.  Go on.  You can remember everything now.   

Barney Hill: It's right over my right. God, what is it? And I try to maintain control so Betty cannot tell I am scared. God, I'm scared! 

Dr. Simon: It's all right. You can go right on and experience it. It will not hurt you now.  

Barney Hill: (emotionally upset) I, I've gotta get my gun!  (Screaming) Ugh! Ugh! I've gotta wake up! (Screams) I gotta get my gun! (Frantic screaming while Dr. Simon reassures him that is all right. Barney cries and pleads)  Oh, Lord! 

Dr. Simon: All right. Go to sleep. Calm now. Relax, deeply relax. Deeply relaxed. You will not have to make any outcry.  But you can remember it now.  Keep remembering.  You feel you have to get your gun. 

Barney Hill: (Barely audible) Yes. 

Dr. Simon: It’s going to harm you, you felt.  

Barney Hill: I open the trunk of my car and I get it and I get back in the car.  (Becoming upset) 

(*This is a false memory. Barney retrieved his gun from the trunk of the car during his first stop near Twin Mountain, when he feared the presence of bears in his vicinity, while he walked the dog. He took his gun from the car seat and placed it in his pocket. For clarification, see hypnosis session 6.) 

Dr. Simon: All right.  Keep reasonably calm.  

Barney Hill:  (whimpering) I put it in my coat and then I go out with the binoculars, and then it is there, and I look. I look and it's just overhead, and I think I'm not afraid. I'll shoot it down. I'm not afraid. And I walk out, and I walk across the road. (Shrieking) Oh, there it is, up there. Oh, God damn it! Oh! 

Dr. Simon: Calm down. It's there. You've seen it. It's not going to hurt you. Go on. 

Barney Hill: Why doesn't it go away?  Look at it.  (Whining.  Nearly unintelligible) There's a man.  Heeeeee……(breaks down) Is he a captain? What is he? He's gonna look at me.  

Dr. Simon: Just a minute.  Let's go back a little bit now.  You say there….Did you say it was a thousand feet away? A thousand yards? 

Barney Hill: It doesn't look that far. It's very big and it's not that far. And I can see it tilted toward me. 

Dr. Simon: What does it look like now? When it tilted, did you see wings? 

Barney Hill: It looks like a big, big pancake with windows and rows of windows and lights, not lights, just like one big light. 

Dr. Simon: Rows of windows like a commercial plane?  

Barney Hill: Rows of windows. They're not like a commercial plane because they curve around to the sides of this pancake, and I say, "My God no."  I have to shake my head. I got, I got…. This can't be true. This isn't there. Oh, it's still there. And I look up and down the road. Can't somebody come and tell me that this isn't there. It can't be. And…. 

Dr. Simon: You're still asleep but you can see it all clearly.  

Barney Hill: It's there. 

Dr Simon: You're sure? It's there? 

Barney Hill: Yuh. 

Dr. Simon: You weren't having a dream? 

Barney Hill: It's there. 

Dr. Simon: You'd had no sleep that evening? 

Barney Hill: I touch my right arm. It's not my right. It's my left arm. And then I touch my right arm or is it my left arm? I'm confused.  

Dr. Simon: It's clearer now. You're relaxed. 

Barney Hill: It's still there. If I let my binoculars fall and dangle from my neck, and then start over again, maybe it won't be there. But it is. Why! What do they want? (Exclaims) What do they want? One person looks friendly. He's friendly looking and he's looking at me over his right shoulder. He's smiling. 

Dr. Simon: Could you see him clearly? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr Simon: What is his face like? What does he look like? 

Barney Hill: its round. I think of a red-headed Irishman. I don't know why. Oh, I think I know why. Because the Irish are usually hostile to Negroes, and when I see a friendly Irish person, I react to it by thinking I will be friendly. I think this one that is looking over his shoulder is friendly. 

Dr. Simon: You say looking over his shoulder.  Was he facing away from you? 

Barney Hill: Yes. He was facing a wall. 

Dr. Simon: You saw him through this window.  Or you said it was a row of windows. 

Barney Hill: The row of windows….There is a huge row of windows only divided by struts or structures that prevented it from being one solid window.  Or, then it would have been one solid window. And the evil face on the …looks like a German Nazi.  He is a Nazi. 

Dr. Simon: He is a Nazi. Did he have on a uniform? 

Barney Hill: Black.  He had a black scarf around his neck dangling over his left shoulder. 

Dr. Simon: You pointed it out as if it were on you.  

Barney Hill: I never noticed that. 

(*Barney had a conscious recall of observing the non-human entities on the craft when he returned home on September 20, 1961. Betty mentioned their black shiny uniforms in her letter to NICAP on September 26, 1961. It is in NICAP investigator Walter Webb’s report as well.)  

Dr. Simon: He's got a black scarf on you think. How could you see these figures so clearly at that distance? 

Barney Hill: I was looking at him with binoculars. 

Dr. Simon: Oh. (Pause) Did they have faces like other people?  You say that one reminded you of a red headed Irishman. 

Barney Hill: His eyes were slanted. (Innocent wonder) I see it, so his eyes are slanted….   (Barney takes on a haunted tone of voice) His eyes were slanted. It was not like a Chinese.  Oh, I feel like a rabbit. I feel like a rabbit. (fearful) 

Dr. Simon: What do you mean by that? 

Barney Hill: I was hunting for rabbits in Virginia, and this cute little bunny went into a bush that was not very thick, and my cousin Marge was on one side of the bush, and I was on the other with a hat, and the poor little bunny thought he was safe, and it tickled me, cause he was just hiding behind a little stalk, which meant security to him when I pounced on him, and threw my hat on him and captured the poor little bunny who thought he was safe. It’s funny, I thought of that right out there on the road. I feel like that rabbit. 

Dr. Simon: What was Betty doing all of this time? 

Barney Hill: I, I, I'm not close to her. I don't know.  

Dr. Simon: You were out there by yourself? 

Barney Hill: I don't think of her. 

Dr. Simon: You don't think of her? Is she saying anything? 

Barney Hill: I can't hear her. 

Dr. Simon: Did you make any outcry to her, the way you did to me? 

Barney Hill: I… I… I can't remember. I don't know. I did not. 

Dr. Simon: You would remember it if you did. 

Barney Hill: I did not. But I know this creature, this leader is telling me something.  

Dr. Simon: He's telling you something? How? How is he getting it to you? 

Barney Hill: I can see it in his face. 

Dr. Simon: You see his lips move? Yes? 

Barney Hill: No. His lips aren't moving.  

Dr. Simon: Yes. Go on. He's telling you……. 

Barney Hill: He's looking at…he… and he's just telling me, "Don't be afraid."  I'm that bunny. I'm going to be pounced on! I think I'm safe. But he didn't tell me I was that bunny.  

Dr. Simon: What did he tell you? 

Barney Hill: “Stay there and keep looking. Just keep looking and stay there. And just keep looking. Just keep looking.”

Dr. Simon: Could you hear each other? 

Barney Hill: Oh, I've got to pull these binoculars away from my eyes. Cause if I don't, I'll just keep staying there. 

Dr. Simon: Could you hear him tell you this? 

Barney Hill: Oh no. He didn't say it. 

Dr. Simon: You felt he said it. 

Barney Hill: I know.  

Dr. Simon: You know he did. 

Barney Hill: Yes. Ya. "Just stay there." he's saying to me. He's talking in my head! 

Dr. Simon: All right.  

Barney Hill: I'm pulling the binoculars away.  (Pleading) God, give me strength! Pull them down! (Unintelligible screaming) Pull these binoculars down and run! God!  If there's a God, give me strength! I've gotta get away!  (Shrieking) Oh! Oh! I've gotta get away from here! 

Dr Simon: (Over Barney's shrieks) All right. Calm down. Calm down.  

Barney Hill: I've gotta get away! 

Dr. Simon: How could you be sure he was telling you this? Calm down. You're still asleep. 

Barney Hill: (Heavy breathing) His eyes. His eyes. (Crying) I've never seen his eyes before! Oh! Oh! Oh! 

Dr. Simon: But you said they were friendly. 

Barney Hill: Oh, no! Not the leader’s!  I said only the one looking over his shoulder was friendly.

Dr Simon: Oh, I see.  Only the one who was…How did you know the other one was the leader? 

Barney Hill: Because everybody moved.  Everyone was standing there looking at me.  But everyone moved to these levers or in the back to this big board.  It looked like a board.  And only this one with the black shiny jacket and the scarf stayed at the window. He was the only one. 

Dr. Simon: You say he had slanted eyes. What did that make you think of? 

Barney Hill: I don't know. I never saw eyes slanted like that.  

Dr. Simon: What was the difference between them and… yes, go on.

Barney Hill: They began to be round and went back like that and like that. And they went up like that.  Can I draw it? 

Dr. Simon: You want to draw it? I'm giving you a pad and a pencil.  You can open your eyes and you can draw whatever you want.  

Barney Hill: (Barney draws it) 

Do you want to let me see it?  Well now, which eye is that? 

Barney Hill: It's the left eye.  

Dr. Simon: The left eye. As you're looking at his left eye or…the left eye as you're looking at it? 

Barney Hill: As I was looking at it. 

Dr. Simon: As you were looking at it. Then it would be the same as your left eye.  In other words, they were slanted…This is where his nose is. Is that it? 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: What is this curl here?  That's the other eye. What's that you're drawing? 

Barney Hill: That's the visor. 

Dr. Simon: The visor?  Was this a military hat he had on? 

Barney Hill: Yes.

 (*Barney perceived this headgear as a military cap, but the verified photos of ETs in my possession show technological headgear that might be mistaken for a military cap.)

Dr. Simon: Like one of our Army hats? 

Barney Hill: Like an officer's hat. 

Dr. Simon: Like an officer's hat.  

Barney Hill: That's his scarf. 

Dr. Simon: All right. Now you have completely relaxed. Go on with your story.  

Barney Hill: I'm driving. 

Dr. Simon: You've gone back into the car now? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: You took down your binoculars, did you? 

Barney Hill: I've got them down.  (*Forcefully to break the leather strap.) 

Dr. Simon: So, you got into the car.  Did you speak to Betty? 

Barney Hill: I'm getting a hold of myself. I'm saying, “Get a hold of myself….(Unintelligibly soft) I drive the car, and I told Betty to look out.  The object was still around us.  I could feel it around us.  I saw it when it passed by….the object……when I got into the car.  It was out there.  I knew it was out there.  Well, it's out there.  It's so weird. It's….(Unintelligibly soft) It's funny. 

Dr. Simon: Yes. Speak a little louder. 

Barney Hill: I know Route 3. Oh, those eyes. They're there in my brain. Oh please. Can't I wake up? 

Dr. Simon: Stay asleep a while longer. We'll get through this all right. We'll get through it all right. All of your feelings, tell me and it won't upset you so much. 

Barney Hill: They're there. Isn't that funny? I'm in the woods. That crazy dog. She stays in the car all of the time. Isn't that funny? She stays in the car. 

Dr. Simon: She doesn't bark nor do anything. 

Barney Hill: No, she just lies there. 

Dr. Simon: What about Betty? 

Barney Hill: I don't know. 

Dr. Simon: Doesn't she say anything? 

Barney Hill: No. (Distressed) I don't understand. Are we being robbed?  

Dr. Simon: What makes you think you're being robbed? 

Barney Hill: I know it's in my mind and I don't want to say it. 

Dr. Simon: Well, you can say it to me. You can say it now. 

Barney Hill: They're men, all with black jackets, and I don't have any money.  I don't have anything. I don't know. Oh, oh the eyes are there. Always the eyes are there, and they're telling me I don't have to be afraid. Is there an accident down the road? What's the red, bright red?  

Dr. Simon: Bright red? 

Barney Hill:  Yuh.  Orange red. 

Dr. Simon: And where is that? 

Barney Hill: Right down the road.  

Dr. Simon: Down the road. 

Barney Hill: I don't have to be afraid, but they won't talk to me. 

Dr. Simon: Who won't talk to you? 

Barney Hill: The men. 

Dr. Simon: In the vehicle? 

Barney Hill: No. They are standing in the road. 

Dr. Simon: There are men standing in the road? 

Barney Hill: Yuh, and they won't talk to me. Only the eyes are talking to me. I don't understand it.  The eyes don't have a body.  They're just eyes. I know. I know. It's got to be a wild cat up a tree. Yuh, that's what it's got to be. Oh, (laughs) I know what it is--the Cheshire cat in Alice in Wonderland. That's what it is. (Laughs) I don't have to be afraid of that. That disappeared too and only the eyes remained.

Dr. Simon: Then you didn't see this? 

Barney Hill: I saw it. 

Dr. Simon: You saw it. Are you still seeing this man? How about this vehicle? 

Barney Hill: The eyes are telling me "Don't be afraid."

Dr. Simon: That's the leader's eyes?

Barney Hill: I don't even see the leader. 

Dr. Simon: The other? 

Barney Hill: All I see are these eyes. 

Dr. Simon: The eyes now. 

Barney Hill: I'm not even afraid that they're not connected to a body. They're just there. They're just up close to me pressing into my eyes.  

Dr. Simon: And what's happened to this vehicle? 

Barney Hill: I don't see any vehicle. 

Dr. Simon: It's gone? 

Barney Hill: It’s there. No, it's not gone, but I don't see it. I'm just there. 

Dr. Simon: Where are you? Are you in the car? 

Barney Hill: No, I'm just suspended. I'm just floating around. Oh, how funny. I'm just floating. I want to get back to the car….Just floating.  

Dr. Simon: Were you floating about or is that the way you feel? 

Barney Hill: It's the way I feel. 

Dr. Simon: Are you still outside of the car? 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: You're in the car. 

Barney Hill: I'm not in the car. I'm near the car. I'm not in the woods. I'm not on the road.  

Dr. Simon: Well, where are these men? 

Barney Hill: I don't know. 

Dr. Simon: Who were on the road? 

Barney Hill: I don't know.  (In amazement) I'm just floating about. O gheez, it's the funniest thing Betty….The funniest thing. I never believed in flying saucers, but I don't know.  Mighty mysterious. Yuh. Well, I guess I won't say anything to anybody about this.  It's too ridiculous. Oh yes, it's really funny. I wonder where they came from. Oh gheez, I wish I had gone with them. 

Dr. Simon: You wish you had gone with them? 

Barney Hill: Yes.  It's very (intelligible) to go to some distant planet. Maybe this will prove the existence of God. Imagine that, proving the existence of God on other planets? Were you scared? I wasn't. No, I wasn't afraid. It's ridiculous, just you and I talking about it.  Well, we're getting into Portsmouth a little later than I expected.  

Dr. Simon: All Right.  We'll stop there.  You will be calm and relaxed.  You will forget everything we have had this period together until I ask you to recall it again; you will forget everything we have done until I ask you to recall it again. You will not be concerned.  You will remain comfortable and relaxed.  You'll have no pains, no aches, and no anxiety.  Whenever I say "Trance Barney." you will go into a deep sleep and obey all of my commands.  You will recall what I want you to recall and what I tell you to.  You will forget what has transpired here until I ask you to recall it again.  You're comfortable and relaxed now. In a deep sleep. You have forgotten all that transpired in our session.  When I wake you, you will repeat exactly what you said and did when I woke you a few moments ago.  Be comfortable relaxed, no pains, no anxiety.  You will repeat as soon as I wake you, all that you said and did when I woke you a moment ago.  You may wake now. 

Barney Hill: Wow! Ten minutes after eight? Didn't you bring me in here at ten minutes after eight? 

Dr. Simon: Yes. 

Barney Hill: Where was I? 

Dr. Simon: You've been right here with me. 

Barney Hill: Where are my cigarettes? Was I about to reach for a cigarette? 

Dr. Simon: It looked that way. Go ahead and have one.  

Barney Hill: I thought I was coming in here and you asked me to take this chair. Then I was going to reach for a cigarette, but I never reached for it. Two hours…an hour and a half… 

Dr. Simon: So, how do you feel? 

Barney Hill: I feel fine. 

Dr. Simon: Do you know what happened here? 

Barney Hill: I believe that you put me into a trance. I know the purpose of it, but I don't know… 

Dr. Simon: That's all right.  We'll continue this next week, a week from today. Come up at eight o'clock again. 

Barney Hill: Eight o'clock next week. 

Dr. Simon: Both you and your wife. 

Comment  Dr. Simon: During the explosive parts of the patient's discussion, he showed very marked grimacing, twisting, tears rushed down his cheeks.  He would clutch his face and his head, and writhe in considerable agony. When he first drew the eye he makes scribbles in the air, which were the shape of the eye, which he ultimately drew.  He actually drew a curve representing the left side of the face and drew the left eye in it without any other detail.  When asked about which eye this was, in which he showed some confusion, he then drew the rest of the shape of the head, and also drew in the other eye, and the cap, and visor, and then as a sort of afterthought, he drew in the scarf.

Then Mrs. Hill was induced by post-hypnotic suggestion for reinforcement in anticipation of the time when she would be interviewed. She had been waiting in the soundproof waiting room during this entire period. 

© Kathleen Marden 2023

                                  Hypnosis Session 2

                                   February 29, 1964

 Barney Hill

© Kathleen Marden 2023

All photo and textual rights reserved under the Pan-American and International Copyright Conventions. 

No part of this may be copied or published.

Dr. Simon asks Barney detailed questions regarding his UFO sighting and subsequent capture by alien beings. He briefly touches upon part of the physical exam, the Hills’ arrival home, and the highly polished magnetic spots on the trunk of their 1957 Chevy. He attempts to find a prosaic explanation for each segment of Barney's experience, but Barney explains each point in greater detail, thus eliminating questionable areas of concern.  Ultimately, although he attempts to do so, Dr. Simon cannot convince Barney that he is drawing upon past experiences to confabulate a UFO abduction.  Barney discusses some of the physical evidence that leads him to conclude that his experience was real.  He has already undergone a powerful abreaction and is in cathartic state.   

Dr. Simon: Mr. Hill is now in the office. How have you been, Mr. Hill?  

Barney Hill: I've been fine. I've been upset. 

Dr. Simon: Tell me about it. 

Barney Hill: Last week, after I left your office, I began having what I thought was a remembrance of what had taken place in the office.  And this became quite disturbing to me. 

Dr. Simon: What did you remember? 

Barney Hill: I remembered eyes and that these eyes were telling me something. So, I became alarmed about this because I thought that my very sanity was in jeopardy.  As a result of it, I was strongly considering calling you after reaching home, but I did not, and my wife and I went out to visit some friends and that relieved the tension. 

Dr. Simon: Is that the only thing you remember? 

Barney Hill: Just basically, yes. About my trip, which I thought was very interesting, because I never thought about them before.  I had never given any thought to them, such as stopping in New York and buying a six pack of beer and Betty and I taking it to the motel.  I thought of how when we were told we could have the little doggie in I put her in the bathroom and tied her with a long chain because the bathroom was tiled.  In case she made an accident it wouldn't soil the rug.  These things seem to come back with…….. 

Dr. Simon: They seem to be things that you hadn't told me because I would remember that part.  I told you that I wanted you to remember everything, and these were things that you had skipped.  

Barney Hill: Oh, I see. 

Dr. Simon: When you were in your trance, you were told to remember everything.  These seem to be somewhat irrelevant details, but you hadn't mentioned them.  You just mentioned them now, so maybe, you felt a little guilty that you hadn't mentioned them, all be it that they are probably irrelevant.  Speaking of that, how much had you drunk along the trip?  

Barney Hill: That was the only thing. 

Dr. Simon: That six pack? 

Barney Hill: That six pack. 

Dr. Simon: The two of you during the course of the evening? 

Barney Hill: No, we drank, we each had one can of beer that Sunday evening and then we retired, and we brought back the four cans. 

Dr. Simon: I see. You hadn't been doing much drinking on the trip at all. 

Barney Hill: No. So that would have been the amount of alcohol intake. 

Dr. Simon: Did your anxiety fade away as the week went on? About the eyes……..? 

Barney Hill: It more or less did.  Yes, it did. All I can think about is it seemed to become sharpened last night.  

Dr. Simon: You seem quite concerned about this experience.  You'll feel all right about it.  You don't have to worry about your sanity.  What do you think about this eye business?  What does it make you think of? Does it connect up with anything?  

Barney Hill: No, it doesn't.  It doesn't have………..Well, yes, I might say the only connection that it does have is a foreboding type of effect of betraying or having been given a warning.  This is the only kind of effect that it has on me. 

Dr. Simon: Do you mean that you have been given a warning? 

Barney Hill: Yes, this kind of effect. 

Dr. Simon: Have you ever had that sort of feeling before? 

Barney Hill: No, I've never had anything like that before. 

Dr. Simon: About hypnosis….Do you think that the eyes play a part in that? 

Barney Hill: Do I feel that it is necessary….? 

Dr. Simon: Do you feel the eye plays a part in your feelings about hypnosis? 

Barney Hill: No, I don't think so. 

Dr. Simon: Then, you haven't been too concerned about my eyes? 

Barney Hill: No.  

Dr. Simon: I see.  Well, you wanted me to take Betty and let you off the hook for a while. Is that it? 

Barney Hill: (Laughing) Well, that's what I thought. 

Dr. Simon: Do you recall the eyes as a part of the session we had?  Or is it just something that hung over with you? 

Barney Hill: Well, it seems like the eyes hung over what I did and said, while I was being hypnotized.  This is my intellectual……. 

Dr. Simon: Well, that was the last thing we got on to over the last Saturday. And I think that it probably did carry over and I'll see to it that you don't have that anxiety. So, we will resume.  You don't remember where we left off in your narration, so we will go back, and we can probably take some of that over again. Let's go back to a bit before the eyes came into the picture.  All right, trance Barney.  You are deeper and deeper and deeper asleep…….Fully relaxed….Deep and deep and deep asleep.  You are in a deep sleep.  You have no fear or anxiety and now you won't be troubled by anything you remember, although you will remember everything.  You will remember everything, all of your feelings and all of your actions.  But they will not trouble you now because they are here with us.  They will not trouble you and I'm here.  Your sleep is deeper and deeper.  Completely relaxed…….Deep asleep……..Far and far and far asleep….Deeply relaxed.  You are in a deep, deep sleep.  Deep asleep. Far asleep. Now you will remember everything that we have gone over about your trip from Montreal.  You will go back a bit before you had these experiences with the eyes, and you can begin to tell me again about the experience with the unidentified object.  You can start a little bit before we left off.  Wherever you feel that you are especially remembering something. 

Barney Hill: I'm remembering being in the wood, parked and I have Delsey, and I'm walking her around the back of the car.  And Betty had asked me if I would let Delsey out.  And Betty is standing off to the left of the car with the binoculars and she is looking at this unidentified flying object.  I'm standing there looking up and down the highway because I have to relieve myself.  And I do this, and I give Betty Delsey's chain, and I ask her to let me see, and I can only see a plane flying in the sky, and I tell her this is a plane, and it's on its way to Montreal where we just left.  And I want to hurry and get back in the car and we'll start returning to Portsmouth.  And Betty gets into the car, and she says, "Isn't that strange."  And I am driving along, and she said, "It's still out there." And I look for another place to stop and I get out and I look again and I noticed the object is still there and I think it is strange…..that it must be a piper cub and it's not making any sound.  And I want to hurry up and get away because this is strange with this thing flying around.  And I am certain that……I believe very strongly that it also can see us.  It is a very dark night and I feel exposed. 

Dr. Simon: Had you finished urinating? 

Barney Hill: Yes, I had. 

Dr. Simon: So, you were not exposed physically. 

Barney Hill: I feel I'm in an exposed situation where my car lights are very bright and it's very dark where I am, and I know this object is flitting around in the sky.  I think of a fly flitting aimlessly in the sky with no pattern, as it is hovering over something it is about to light on, and I think that this thing out there is just hovering around.  And Betty is telling me to stop again, and I do.  I said, "Betty, what are you trying to do?  Make me think that I'm seeing something that isn't there?  And I became very angry with her because I believe this is a plane, something that can be explained, and I believe she is trying to make me think it is not.  And this irritates me. 

Dr. Simon: What was her reply to this? 

Barney Hill: Betty's reply was "Well why is it doing what it is doing?  Why isn't it going away?  What is it doing? 

Dr. Simon: Now, this isn't going to upset you.  This is not going to upset you, now.  You will be able to tell me.  You will tell me your feelings.  It will not upset you.  You will not be upset about it.  Go ahead. 

Barney Hill: I said, "Betty, it can't…"  I was thinking.  I did not say that to Betty.  I was thinking …….my mind was thinking……..I was thinking that cannot be a plane.  And that this is why I was becoming upset because Betty was telling me it wasn't acting like any conventional type of flying craft.  I somehow knew this and did not want to be told this. 

Dr. Simon: Did you feel that it wasn't acting like a conventional kind of flying craft? 

Barney Hill: Yes. I did. 

Dr. Simon: (Unintelligible) 

Barney Hill: It moved very peculiarly.  It did not fly in any definite straight line.  It would go up suddenly………. 

Dr. Simon: You mean just rise vertically? 

Barney Hill: Yes, it would rise in a very straight up position and then fly for a short…horizontally, and then would dip down.  And as it did this, I noticed the row of lights that was on it seemed to tilt and level off, even as I imagined the body of this thing…..that the position of the body of this thing would have been in.   

Dr. Simon: You mean as if it were banking? 

Barney Hill: As if it was banking. But banking doesn't seem to fit what I'm trying to describe. 

Dr. Simon: Um-huh.  Take your time.  

Barney Hill: Because if it banked, I could think of a plane and know it as a plane.  It just tilted.  It did not bank in a swooping bank.  It just…from a horizontal line, it just became a vertical line. 

Dr. Simon: How would you describe the shape of it? 

Barney Hill: I could not outline the shape. 

Dr. Simon: Well, an ordinary plane, even a piper cub tends to be somewhat cigar-shaped, even big helicopters. 

Barney Hill: Yes.  The rows of lights were like a row of lights in a cigar-shaped pattern.  Only that it was a straight line that I saw, and it was elongated.  

Dr. Simon: This thing wasn't ……didn't you surmise that this thing was round like a so called flying saucer? 

Barney Hill: No, I didn't see………. 

Dr. Simon: It did have some resemblance to an ordinary plane then. 

Barney Hill: At this time, yes. 

Dr. Simon: Do you imply that it changed its shape later? 

Barney Hill: Yes.  As I continued to look further down the highway, I had a peculiar feeling that it was spinning.  And I couldn't………… 

Dr. Simon: You mean like a top? 

Barney Hill: Like a top. 

Dr. Simon: Now, when you spoke of this before you spoke of some lights down the highway.  Red lights, I believe? Does that ring any bells? 

Barney Hill: Red lights. 

Dr. Simon: Or some lights down the highway as if men were working down there? 

Barney Hill: Yes, but that is further… 

Dr. Simon: Oh, later on? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Go on then, in your own way. 

Barney Hill: So, so…I continued to look, and I would stop, and I would leave and go and Betty would insist that I stop and we did this several times.  

Dr. Simon: Was this always to stop and look again? 

Barney Hill: To stop and look and when I can see the tramway mountain, far up ahead, I knew where I was.  And I knew I would eventually pass by the Old Man in the Mountain, and the object seemed to have speeded up, and go around the right side of Cannon Mountain.  And I was going around the left side at the base, and when I got to the where the Old Man of the Mountain figure was located, I stopped again and got a good look. And knew that this object seemed to still be out there, and it would stop when I stopped.  And I thought this is strange and it moved, or I did not see it move.  I started driving the car and Betty said, "It is moving behind the mountain once again."  And I was approaching a clear spot in which I saw two wigwams on my right, and I knew I was close to Indian Head.  And I saw this object far off, even as I approached this spot by slowing down and looking, and then I tend to look down the road to drive, and Betty became very excited.  She said, "Oh Barney, you must stop the car.  Look at what it is doing!"  And I speed slower in my driving, and I look through the windshield, and on her side.  The object looked as if it was right out there in front of the windshield, only I have to look up to see it.  And I must have been driving five miles an hour because I had to put the car in low gear so it would not stall.  And I said, "Oh this is funny." I thought of all these thoughts I had since I first saw this thing. I thought it's a piper cub.  I thought it’s an airliner.  I thought it is a military craft and these military men are having fun with us.  And I came to a complete stop, and I reached down on the floor of the car to my left and picked up the gun and put it in my pocket. 

Dr. Simon: You had already put the gun in there, from your trunk when you were concerned about it?  (He took the gun from the trunk at the first stop, at Twin Mountain.  For more details, see Hypnosis Session number 6.) 

Barney Hill: Yes.  And I put the gun in my pocket, and I got out of the car with the binoculars, and I stood with my arm on the door and my right arm partly on the top of the roof of the car.  And I looked, and before I could get the binoculars up to my eyes, even as I did get them up there and the car was vibrating from the motor running, I stepped away, and the object shifted in an arc.  And I thought, "How remarkable."  It was a perfect arc.  But it continued to have a forward look facing me as if it swung, and did not move from its position, but just swung from position with the front still facing me.  And it moved to my left, and I continued to look, and began walking across the highway, shaking my head and trying to blink my eyes.  Is this some kind of ……..something I could not explain?   And if I looked down the highway and looked back (I hoped) it would be gone, and I continued to walk across the highway toward the front of my car, down the road, and I continued to look with my binoculars.  Each time I would stop and look up, and then I would walk further toward it, and stop and look up.  I thought, “How interesting, there is the military pilot, and he is looking at me, and I looked at him.  And he looked at me, and there were several others looking at me, and I thought of a huge dirigible.  And I thought of all the men lined up at the window of this huge dirigible and they were looking down at me. Then they moved to the back, and I continued to look at this one man that stood there.  And I kept looking at him and looking at him.  

Dr. Simon: Is this the man you called the leader? 

Barney Hill: He was dressed differently.  And I thought of the Navy and a submarine, and I thought the men that moved back were dressed something like lieutenants. But this other man was dressed in a black shiny coat with a cap on. 

Dr. Simon: When you spoke of these hoodlums on your trip, did they wear these black shiny coats as hoodlums often do? 

Barney Hill: No. They did not. 

Dr. Simon: There was no resemblance between them and this leader? 

Barney Hill: No.  These Canadian men in Coaticook were dressed in conventional dress, but their hair was in the duckbill style. And I thought of them as hoodlums because of their hairstyle. 

Dr. Simon: Let's go back now, with this leader. 

Barney Hill: I looked at him and he looked at me, and I thought this is not going to harm me, and I wanted to get back to Betty and begin discussing this interesting thing we were looking at.  And I kept looking at him and he looked at me. Then, I came back to the car and Betty, I thought, was flopping on the seat and I said, “Betty, were you excited?", and she said,"Why didn't you come back? I was screaming for you to come back.  I couldn't understand why you were going out across the road." 

Dr. Simon: You hadn't heard her screams? 

Barney Hill: No, I did not hear her scream.  I just thought she was flopping on the seat, but she said she had leaned across the seat so she would be closer to the open door, and holler for me to get back in the car.  

Dr. Simon: I see.  We'll stop here for just a moment, and you won't be able to hear anything that goes on here. Just rest quietly.  Feel comfortable.  (Dr. Simon stopped to check the recording machine, which seemed to have a buzzing sound and was behaving strangely.) All right Barney.  You may resume now. 

Barney Hill: I returned to the car and began driving down the highway. I drove, I think, a few miles and noticed I was not on Route 3, and I could not understand that, because it is a straight highway. And I looked and I was being signaled to stop, and I thought, "I wonder if there is an accident?  I do have my gun."  And I put my hand on it. 

Dr. Simon: Let me interrupt again.  What was it you saw down the highway? 

Barney Hill: I saw a group of men and they were standing in the highway, and it was brightly lit up as if it was almost daylight, but not day. It was not the kind of light of day.  But it was brightly lighted, and they were coming toward me, and I had not had any warning as I had driven down this road before I suddenly saw this brightly lighted area.  Or the area became brightly lighted, and they began coming toward me.  And I did not think after that of my gun, and I became afraid (that) if I did think of my gun, I would be harmed.  And if I did not, I would not be harmed.  And they came and they assisted me out of the car. 

Dr. Simon: Who assisted you? 

Barney Hill: These men. 

Dr. Simon: They assisted you out of the car? 

Barney Hill: I felt very weak.  I felt very weak, but I wasn't afraid, and I can't even think, being confused.  I am not bewildered.  I can't even think of questioning what is happening to me, and I am being assisted.  And I am thinking of the picture I saw many years ago, and this man is being carried to the electric chair, and I think of this, and I think I am in this man's position.  And I am not being carried to the electric chair, but I think my feet are dragging and I think of this picture.  I am not afraid.  I feel like I am dreaming.  

Dr. Simon: Are you asleep at the time? 

Barney Hill: My eyes are tightly closed, and I seem disassociated. 

Dr. Simon: Disassociated?  What do you mean by that? 

Barney Hill: I am there, and I am not there. 

Dr. Simon: Where is Betty through all of this? 

Barney Hill: I don't know.  I'm trying to think, “Where's Betty?”  I don't know. 

Dr. Simon: Are these men a part of your dream? 

Barney Hill: They are there, and I am there.  I know they are there, but everything is black.  My eyes are tightly closed.  I can't believe what I think. 

Dr Simon: No? Is there anything else you're thinking that you haven't told me? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Yes?  You can tell me now. 

Barney Hill: I am only thinking of mental pictures because my eyes are closed, and I think I am going up a slight incline, and my feet are not bumping on the rocks.  That's funny, I thought of my feet bumping on the rocks.  And they are going up smoothly, but I'm afraid to open my eyes because I am being told strongly, by myself, to keep my eyes closed.  Don't open them.  I don't want to be operated on. 

Dr. Simon: You don't want to be operated on?  What makes you think of an operation? 

Barney Hill: I don't know. 

Dr. Simon: Have you ever been operated on? 

Barney Hill: Only for my tonsils. 

Dr. Simon: Does this feel like that, at that time? 

Barney Hill: I think like that, but my eyes are closed, and I only have mental pictures, and I am not in pain.  I feel a slight feeling. 

Dr. Simon: You can stop there and rest for a moment.  You will not hear anything else. (Fixes tape recorder) All right, now you can go on. 

Barney Hill: I, I am cold.  My private parts feel cold.  And my pants are on, and I think my fly must be open. 

Dr. Simon: Stop for a moment now, again.  You think your pants are opened? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Has that any connection with the operation?  

Barney Hill: I'm not being operated on.  My fly is open. And I think I must have left it open when I was in the mountains. 

Dr. Simon: Go on, or you can stop now and rest.  You will hear nothing until I speak to you.  Alright, go on. 

Barney Hill: I am lying on my stomach, and I think, and I think of a doctor putting something in my ear. 

Dr. Simon: In your ear? 

Barney Hill: When I was a little boy, I had an ear infection……. 

Dr. Simon: All right, we'll stop there and take a rest.  You will hear nothing until I speak to you again.  (Pause) Now, we will continue.  You were speaking about how when you were a little boy the doctor put something in your ear.  Go on. 

Barney Hill: Dr. Harley put something to my ear, and I looked at it, and he explained to me that you can peek into the ear and light it up with this thing, and I think of that because I am on my stomach. And the doctor is pushing something in my rectum, and it feels like what I think went into my ear, and I feel that Dr. Harley did not pain me, and I will be very careful and very still and I will cooperate, and I won't be harmed.    

Dr. Simon: Yes, go on. 

Barney Hill: I can't remember. 

Dr. Simon: You were thinking about this when you were there on the road? 

Barney Hill: I was thinking about this when I was lying on my stomach. 

Dr. Simon: Where were you lying on your stomach? 

Barney Hill: I thought I was inside something, but I did not dare open my eyes.  I had been told to keep my eyes closed. 

Dr. Simon: Who told you that? 

Barney Hill: The man. 

Dr. Simon: What man? 

Barney Hill: The man that I saw through the binoculars. 

Dr. Simon: Was this one of the men in the road? 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: Well, who were these men in the road and what part did they play in all of this? 

Barney Hill: They took me and carried me up this ramp. 

Dr. Simon: They carried you up the ramp? 

Barney Hill: I know I was going up something and my feet were dragging, and this man spoke to me, and I knew I had heard his voice when he was looking at me, when I was in the road. 

Dr. Simon: This happened after you were in the road? 

Barney Hill: This happened after I was in the road in Indian Head.  I thought I had driven quite a distance from Indian Head when I got lost and found myself in the woods.  

Dr. Simon: Oh, you got lost after you left Indian Head.  Is that it? 

Barney Hill: I was not on Route 3, and I couldn't understand why. 

Dr. Simon: Was Indian Head before or after you saw this object? 

Barney Hill: I don't understand the question. 

Dr. Simon: Well, was it after you were at Indian Head that you saw this object? 

Barney Hill: It was at Indian Head that I saw the object standing in the sky, and it was after Indian Head.  I had driven several miles.  I think I have driven a lot of miles, and the road is not Route 3.  It is in a heavily wooded area, but it is a road, and this is when I am flagged down. 

Dr. Simon: You were flagged down? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: These men flagged you down? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: How many were there? 

Barney Hill: I thought I saw a cluster of six men because three came to me and three did not. 

Dr. Simon: How were they dressed? 

Barney Hill: I was told at that time to close my eyes, and I closed my eyes. 

Dr. Simon: But before you closed your eyes didn't you see them? 

Barney Hill: They were in dark clothing, and they were all dressed alike. 

Dr. Simon: Were they white men? 

Barney Hill: I don't know about the color, but they did not seem that they had different faces from white men. 

Dr. Simon: Were they in a uniform of any sort? 

Barney Hill: I thought of a Navy pea jacket just before I closed my eyes. 

Dr. Simon: Did they say anything else besides telling you to close your eyes?  Did they tell you why they were stopping you? 

Barney Hill: They didn't tell me anything.  They didn't say anything. 

Dr. Simon: Was there any vehicle around? 

Barney Hill: I didn't see any. 

Dr. Simon: You didn't see any vehicle? 

Barney Hill: I was told to close my eyes because I saw two eyes coming close to mine, and I felt like the eyes had pushed into my eyes.  

Dr. Simon: Was this the same eyes of the leader that you saw through the binoculars before? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Did you think it was the same man? 

Barney Hill: I didn't think of anything.  I didn't think of the man in the sky in the machine that I saw.  I just saw these eyes and I closed mine.  And I got out of the car, and I put my left leg on the ground, and two men helped me out, and I did not walk.  I felt like I was being supported and I did not go very far, I thought, before I was going up, and I was going up.  My eyes were tightly closed, and I was afraid to open them.  Or….that doesn't say what I mean. 

Dr. Simon: Well, try again. 

Barney Hill: I didn't want to open them.  I was comfortable to keep them closed. 

Dr. Simon: Were these men holding you? 

Barney Hill: They were by my side, and I had a funny feeling because I knew they were holding me, but I couldn't feel them. 

Dr. Simon: Is this what you meant the last time when you spoke of floating? 

Barney Hill: I felt floating, suspended.  I am thinking of getting out of the car and I had not thought that these men, when they helped me out of the car, I could not feel them.  And I only became aware that I could not feel them when we were going up an incline.  And then, I felt that I could not feel them.  Yet, my arms were up in a position of being supported.  My elbows were out, and I was moving.  But I was not walking, and I want to peek.  I want to look.  I want to look.  

Dr. Simon: Yes, this won't trouble you now. You can go on now.  You can tell me. 

Barney Hill: I open my eyes. 

Dr. Simon: You opened your eyes? 

Barney Hill: And I closed them. 

Dr. Simon: What did you see? 

Barney Hill: I saw a hospital ward, a hospital operating room and it was pale blue…sky blue, and I closed my eyes. 

Dr. Simon: Do you remember the operating room when you had your tonsils out? 

Barney Hill: It was in the Mercy Douglas Hospital, and I was in there because they thought I had appendicitis, and I stayed there for thirteen or fourteen….thirteen days. And I used to walk down the corridor and peek in the operating room, and I thought of that.  It wasn't when I had my tonsils out. 

Dr. Simon: Was that operating room blue? 

Barney Hill: No.  It was bright lights. 

Dr. Simon: Bright lights? 

Barney Hill: Bright lights like a bulb, but this room was not like that.  It was spotless.  I thought of everything being so clean, and I closed my eyes. 

Dr. Simon: Did you feel you were going to be operated on? 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: Did you feel you were going to be attacked in any way? 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: You said your fly was open and you felt your privates were cold. 

Barney Hill: I was lying on the table and my fly was open, and I thought, “Are they putting a cup around my private parts?”  And then it stopped, and I thought, “How funny.” I thought, “How funny.  If I keep real quiet and real still, I won't be harmed, and it will be over. And I will just stay here and pretend that I am anywhere, and think of God, and think of Jesus, and think I am not afraid.”

And I am getting off the table and I've got a big grin on my face.  And I feel greatly relieved.  And I am walking, and I am walking, and I am being guided and my eyes are closed. And I open my eyes and there is the car, and the lights are off, and it is not running, and Delsey is under the seat, and I reach under and touch her, and she is in a tight ball. And I sit back, and I see Betty is coming down the road, and she gets into the car, and I am grinning at her, and she is grinning back at me.  And we both seem so elated, and we are really happy.  And I am thinking it isn't too bad.  How funny, I have no reason to fear, and we look, and I see a bright moon and I laugh and say "Well, there it goes." (Chuckles) And I am happy. 

Dr. Simon: Do you mean that this object is going?  

Barney Hill: Yuh. 

Dr. Simon: It had gone. 

Barney Hill: It was going. 

Dr. Simon: Going…Did you still see it? 

"The Fiery Orb" copyrighted by artist David Baker

Barney Hill: It was a bright huge ball……orange.  It was a beautiful bright ball. And it was going, and it was gone, and we were in darkness. And I put on the lights of the car and looked down the road, and I saw there is a bend in the road.  And we began driving and I could see a slight incline, and then, I drove and came back to Route 3 because I was on cement road. And I thought, "Oh boy, if I could only find a restaurant and get a cup of coffee.  And Betty…and I feel…, I feel real hilarious…..a feeling of well being.  I feel great relief. 

Dr. Simon: What were you relieved about? 

Barney Hill: I am relieved….. I feel that I have been in a harrowing situation and there was nothing damaging or harmful about it, and I feel greatly relieved.  

Dr. Simon: And the flying object is gone? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: And it didn't come back? 

Barney Hill: Betty is giggling, and she said, "Do you believe in flying saucers now?"  And I said, Oh Betty, don’t be ridiculous. Of course, I don't."  And we heard a beeping, the car buzzed, and I kept silent. 

Dr. Simon: You heard a beeping? 

Barney Hill: It was a beeping, beep, beep, beep (Quicken pace) beep, beep, beep, beep. 

Dr. Simon: Was your car radio on? 

Barney Hill: No, my radio was not on.  It was so late, and I did not think I could get a station, so when I left Canada, I cut my radio off. I played my radio in Quebec because I thought it was funny, humorous to get the Canadian stations, and every word was spoken in French, and the music sounded different to my ears.  When I left Montreal, I became determined to drive home and I cut my radio off. I don't play my radio when I'm driving. 

Dr. Simon: Well now, these beeps…..you heard these beeps again.  Do they sound like some of the beeps you get on a radio where you have code signals, or what did they sound like? 

Barney Hill: Beep, beep, beep.  They sound like beeps.  That's all.  They sound like beeps. 

Dr. Simon: Yes, well what did you do?  What did you think about?  

Barney Hill: I thought it was strange.  The beep, beep, be, beep……, and on the first beep, I touched the steering wheel with my fingertips because I thought I had felt a vibration.  When I heard the beep and as it continued, Betty looked to the back, I slowed the car down and I stopped, and I said, "Betty is there something shifting in the car?"  

Dr. Simon: Did she say anything about hearing the beeps? 

Barney Hill: She said, “What is that noise?!" 

Dr Simon: Alright. 

Barney Hill: And we looked in the back, and Delsey had climbed up on the back seat and her ears were propped up, and the beep, beep, beep…..And we said, "Oh--oh, do you think that thing is still around?"  I called it a thing.  Betty called it a flying saucer and we had no answer, so we both just thought, “How strange.”  And I thought, “That's very peculiar. I wonder if I can make the car do that.”  So, I drove the car fast and then would decelerate rapidly, and I would swerve over to the left of the highway, and back to the right, and I came to a complete stop and accelerated rapidly, but I could not seem to get that sound.  And we drove down the highway and we saw the route for the express way….seventeen miles to Concord. And I drove to Concord and down Route 4. 

Dr. Simon: Did the beeping follow you there? 

Barney Hill: No, I did not hear any beeps.  

Dr. Simon: After you got on the concrete road……..Is that it? 

Barney Hill: No, I did not hear any beeps for quite a distance before I reached the main superhighway, because Route 3 was also concrete, where I heard the beeping.  

Dr. Simon: I see. 

Barney Hill: And I heard the beeping two times.  I heard the beeping when I got into the car or returned to the car at Indian Head and started down the highway.  I heard this series of beeps and I thought, "What is that, Betty?" and we did not hear it anymore. 

Dr Simon: Then she heard it too? 

Barney Hill: She heard it too.  And we did not hear it again until we had been in the woods and had returned to Route 3, and she asked me did I believe in flying saucers.  And I did not want to say what I really believed. 

Dr. Simon: What did you really believe? 

Barney Hill: I believed that we had seen and been a part of something different than anything I had ever seen before. 

Dr. Simon: Do you mean also this experience with these men in this operating room? 

Barney Hill: Yes.  And I…….. (Dr. Simon interrupts Barney.) 

Dr. Simon: Did you feel you had been kidnapped? 

Barney Hill: I didn't use that word.  I can only use that word intellectually. I did not feel that I had been kidnapped.  But I think of kidnapping when you are being harmed. 

Dr. Simon: And you weren't harmed. 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: Do you have any idea why this was done? 

Barney Hill: I was anxious to get home and look at my private parts. 

Dr. Simon: You wanted to see your private parts.  Were you afraid they had done something to them? 

Barney Hill: Well, I wanted to see them. I thought, "This is proof that something happened to me.”  And I was unsure and would waver and think, "It can't be."  But then I would think, “But, it did."  And I would think, “When I get home and look at my private parts, I will touch whatever touched me, and see if there is a mark.”  This is what I thought.

Dr Simon: (Pause) Alright.  Go on. 

Barney Hill: I drove home, and I walked into the house, and I was too tired to bring in my luggage, and Betty got out of the car, and she took Delsey, and she let Delsey relieve herself on the grass and brought her in. And I went into the bathroom and looked at my private parts and saw nothing wrong with them.  And I went into the bedroom, and I kept thinking that something is around me.  I went to the window, and I looked up into the morning sky, and I went to the back door and opened it and looked up into the sky. And I thought, "Something is around somewhere."  And Betty and I then retired, talking, "Isn't that very strange…whatever happened." And I could not remember anything that happened except that I was at Indian Head.  Then, I went to bed. And the next day (actually the same day, 9/20/1961) we decided we would not ever tell anyone, and we would only talk about it to each other.  And I said, "But Betty will you draw a picture of what you think you saw, and I will."  And we drew pictures, and they were identical, and Betty called her sister and told her sister. 

Dr. Simon: What was the condition of your car? 

Barney Hill: Betty went out of the house.  She came away from the telephone and she said, "Where is the compass?  Where is the compass?"  And when Betty does that to me, I immediately get angry and I said, "I don't know what you're talking about Betty." And she said, "Compass, Compass, where's the compass?"  And I said, "In the drawer where it always is." And she got it, and I was irritated because, when she is excited like that, she didn't think to open the drawer and find it.  And she went out of the house, and I went to the bedroom window, which is the front window of the house…apartment and looked at her. And she was running around the car, and I thought, "This thing is getting the best of Betty." And we'd better forget this as quickly as possible and stop remembering it."  And she stormed into the house and said, "Barney, come here!  Come here quick!"  And I went out and I looked at the compass when she placed it by the car and I said, "Oh, this is ridiculous Betty.  After all, the car is metal, and any metal will cause a compass to react this way."  And she said, "But look at what it does." And "Look at the spots on my car." And I looked and there were large spots… shiny spots on the trunk of the car.  And I thought, "Well what caused that?" And I started to try to wipe one off and she said, "Don't touch it." And I said, "How can you not know if it isn't anything?"  And I put the compass close to it and the compass would spin and spin, and I could move the compass as few inches to a spot on trunk that did not have a spot and the compass would drop down, and I could not understand this.  And I knew I did not know anything about compasses, and I told Betty, "After all, the compass is a cheap compass and there's nothing to get alarmed about." 

Dr. Simon: "What gave her the idea of using a compass? 

Barney Hill: I did not know at that time. 

Dr. Simon: Well, what did you find out? 

Barney Hill: She told me later that, while she was talking to her sister, her sister had suggested that she get a compass and check and see if the car was magnetized.  When we would place the compass anywhere except on those spots, it would just flop down. 

Dr Simon: You say these were shiny spots.  What do you mean by that? Were there changes in the color of your car, or just dust removed, or what? 

Barney Hill: Highly polished. 

Dr. Simon: As if the car had been highly polished? 

Barney Hill: Yes, in those spots. 

Dr. Simon: How big were they? 

Barney Hill: About the size of half dollars….silver dollars. 

Dr. Simon: Did you try to remove them? Or did you try to wipe the rest of the car off? 

Barney Hill: I never bothered with the spots. 

Dr. Simon: Was the rest of the car dusty, I suppose? 

Barney Hill: Yes, it was. 

Dr. Simon: And you didn't try to polish it off to see if you could get rid of the spots? 

Barney Hill: There had been a rain and where the rain had washed some of the dust off, the shiny spots were still there, and I didn't try to wipe them off. 

Dr. Simon: Could these spots have been caused by the raindrops taking the dust off? 

Barney Hill: No! The spots were shiny and perfect circles. 

Dr. Simon: Well, what did you do, just leave the spots? 

Barney Hill: I did. 

Dr. Simon: Well, did you wash or polish your car within a reasonable time afterwards? 

Barney Hill: That was Betty's car, and she washes her car. I suppose she did.  I didn't pay any more attention. 

Dr. Simon: You don't know. About how long did those spots stay then? 

Barney Hill: I shut them out.  I don't know.  I just stopped thinking about them. 

Dr. Simon: Oh, I see.  You don't know when they……….They did disappear didn't they? 

Barney Hill: Yes, they are gone. 

Dr. Simon: All right.  We'll stop with this now.  Now you'll no longer think about everything we've talked about today until I ask you to recall it, or anything else.  It will not trouble you at all. The eyes will not trouble you.  You won't even think about them. Everything is comfortable.  Everything is relaxed.  There is no need for anxiety and nothing to worry about.  Is that clear? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Now you're comfortable, aren't you? 

Barney Hill: Yes, I am. 

Dr. Simon: And relaxed? You are not worried.  You will not worry.  Everything will be quite all right, and you and Betty will come back a week from today, again, just as you did today.  Do you feel all right now? 

Barney Hill: Yes, I do. 

Dr. Simon: Yes, you are very comfortable.  You will not worry about it.  It will not trouble you at all.  It's not going to affect your mind and it’s an experience that we'll talk about more, and we'll get it all cleared up.  So, you will have no fear…, no anxiety.  You will not think about this.  This will not come to you……….anything that we've talked about in these sessions.  You're sure of that now.  You will not think about it and it will not trouble you.  You'll be comfortable and relaxed, no pains, no aches, no anxiety.  You'll be all right.  

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: And you may wake now. 

Dr. Simon: The pauses with (unintelligible) were because of technical difficulties where there seemed to be some over carriage into the tapes of a previous recording.  It was necessary to stop to try to make some adjustments which may possibly impair the quality of the tape, at certain points, on the right channel.  The left channel appeared to record quite well.  I did the first part on the right channel.  Mrs. Hill was induced prior to ………(Tape ends)

Kathleen Marden's Website and articles, transcripts, photos, and sketches are Copyrighted by Kathleen Marden 2023