The Hills' Hypnosis Sessions

Caution: Do not read the hypnosis transcripts until you have read and understand "The Hills' Route and Timeline in 1961." It is extremely important for you to read the Hills' consciously recalled information. The events on the night of September 19-20 1961 are documented in archival records on this site.

Like our conscious recall of past events, hypnotic recall is not the royal road to completely accurate recall. Misremembering can  occur when the therapist pushes for information that is not readily available. The recall of traumatic memories comes haltingly and many not be accurate during periods of extreme emotional distress. Also, some of the Hills' information is recounted out of sequence, and this will create confusion for the  reader. It is important to know that when a person recounts information while under hypnosis he or she does not state everything they remember, just as occurs in our regular interactions with others. Session #2 and the later hypnosis sessions offer a clearer picture of what occurred. I have added notes to assist with your understanding of the events as they occurred. For a better understanding of what occurred, please read Captured! The Betty and Barney Hill UFO Experience.

Barney recalls the details of his trip and his private thoughts from the evening of September 18, 1961- September 19, 1961.  This includes his motel stay, his drive through Montreal, lower Quebec, Vermont, and the White Mountains of New Hampshire. Barney has undergone a three-week long conditioning period to prepare him for Dr. Simon’s unique form of hypno-analysis. This is the same method that Dr. Simon employed to gain his renowned reputation for in his successful treatment of World War II combat neurosis patients. His work was documented in the movie, Let There be Light, directed by John Huston. 

Dr. Simon did not believe that extraterrestrial craft were real. Like Dr. Simon, prior to Barney’s  close encounter, with a silent hovering disk only one hundred feet above him in a field in Lincoln, NH, he was highly skeptical regarding the reality of extraterrestrial visitation. He hoped that Dr. Simon could provide him with a prosaic explanation for his extraordinary memories. However, two hours of missing time, his conscious recall of turning off onto a secondary road, a strange roadblock, a red-orange orb on the ground, physical evidence of scraped shoe tops, a broken binocular strap, shiny magnetic half dollar size circles on the car’s trunk that had not been there the previous day, and a breakthrough memory of creatures in the road had caused him to experience extreme stress. He desired to forget the whole event, but the nagging trauma related to his memories had resulted in bleeding stomach ulcers.

He hoped that through Dr. Simon’s expert treatment, his psychogenic symptoms would recede, and his life could return to normal. He was a loving husband, a father of two sons whom he sorely missed, a veteran of WWII, a devoted church member, a civil rights leader, community activist, and an employee at the U.S. Post Office.        

Hypnosis session begins:                                               

Dr. Simon: February 22, 1964. This will be the beginning of the examinations of Mr. and Mrs. Barney Hill under hypnosis with respect to a UFO encounter in the White Mountains of New Hampshire on September 19th to 20th, 1961. Now, Mr. Hill, we're going to proceed with the study of your experiences back in 1961. You understand that we're going to record all of this, and the recording will be mine.  That is agreeable with you? (*Later, the hypnosis tapes became the joint property of Dr. Simon and The Hills. Betty appointed me Kathleen Marden Trustee of her estate, so, all her records passed to me. However, she had given her audiotapes and some of her files to me years before her passing. )

 Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: All right then, trance, Barney. Go deeper and deeper, deeper asleep…far asleep. Deeper and deeper, fully relaxed, all muscles are relaxed…You’re comfortable and relaxed. Deeper and deeper, deeper asleep; deep asleep.  When I touch your head your right arm will become rigid like a bar of steel, rigid. It cannot bend or relax; very rigid. Now when I touch the top of your hand you will lose all sensation. You will not feel this pin, no pain whatever. Now as I stroke your hand the sensation becomes normal. The arm relaxes. You go deeper and deeper and deeper. Now you are in a very deep sleep. Your memory is now sharp, very sharp. You will remember everything, everything that has occurred; all of your experiences, thoughts, and feelings. You will not be anxious or distressed but you will remember everything, and you will tell me everything.  

     I want you to go back now to your vacation in 1961 where you went to Montreal. Is that right?

 Barney Hill: Yes.

 Dr. Simon: Tell me in full detail all of your experiences, all of your thoughts, and all of your feelings beginning at the time when you left your hotel. Were you in Montreal?

 Barney Hill: We did not stay in Montreal. We stayed in a motel in another city.

 Dr. Simon: Yes, where did you stay?

 Barney Hill: I can't seem to remember.

 Dr. Simon: It was near Montreal?

 Barney Hill: It was approximately 112 miles from Montreal.

 Dr. Simon: Is there any reason why you can't remember it?

 Barney Hill: We arrived at night, and I did not notice any name at the motel. 

 Dr. Simon: I see. Do you know what the city was?

 Barney Hill: It was not a city. It was out in the country. We had been driving from Niagara Falls, Canada.

 Dr. Simon: Keep right on. Tell me about your arrival there, everything that you remember. And you will remember everything.

 Barney Hill: We arrived in this small area. We did not see any town marks and my car was making a lot of noise. It was Betty's car that we were driving. I was driving the car. We stopped at a service station, and they told me the car had not been properly greased.  So, they greased the car, and this eliminated this noise that the car was making. We then decide we could not continue to Montreal, and that we should look for a place to stay overnight. And that's when I saw this motel, and did not pay any attention to the name. The thoughts that were going through my mind were, "Would they accept me? Because when they say that they were filled up and I wonder if they were doing this because I was prejudiced. (*Notice the confusing hypnotic recall. Barney had never been denied accommodations.)

 Dr. Simon: Because you were prejudiced?

 Barney Hill: They were prejudiced.

 Dr. Simon: Because you're a Negro?

 Barney Hill: Because I'm a Negro.

 Dr. Simon: You've run into that before I take it?

 Barney Hill: I have not actually ever run into being denied access to any place of accommodation.

 Dr. Simon: You just worry about it? 

  Barney Hill: I do know this does happen and I was concerned because I was getting quite tired. And when I went to this place they immediately accepted me. It cost us $12.00 for the two of us and we stayed overnight. 

 Dr. Simon: Did you express your concerns to your wife, and does she share them?

 Barney Hill: She does not share my concerns about this matter.

 Dr. Simon: Do you express them to her, or do you keep them to yourself?

 Barney:  I do express them to her.

 Dr. Simon: Did you on that night?

 Barney Hill: I did not. I never express them to her when we are actually seeking a place. (*In this time frame racial discrimination was not unusual.)  

 Dr. Simon: I see. All right, go on.

 Barney Hill: We had our little dog with us, and we were told that it was a nice little Dachshund-dash hound type dog and that we could have her in the motel unit. The next morning, we got up bright and early. There was a restaurant across the street, and we decided to eat breakfast. I had my favorite…. ham, eggs,……..coffee. We then are driving along this wide highway. It’s a new road. It’s a beautiful road. It’s four lanes in certain sections. I am coming into Montreal, and I do not particularly like the thoughts of staying there. 

 Dr. Simon: Why not?

 Barney Hill: It's a big city. There's much confusion. There are many trucks on the road. There's quite an amount of traffic building up. I don't want to stay in Montreal with all of this traffic. I have difficulty keeping the highway route number I want. And I approach the city from a different direction than I though I should on the map. There was a fork in the road, and I see a lot of children standing there by the mounds. And I miss the pleasant drive of the countryside. This is like coming into another big city. I never have liked driving in big cities. I pull over to the side and I ask Betty where are we? Can we see ourselves positioned on the map? And I see my mistake by this fork, and I had continued to the right when I should have made a very sharp left turn, which would have brought me into the city in a different way. Finally, I am in the city and I'm looking for St. Catherine's Street.

 Dr. Simon: Why?

 Barney Hill: I had seen advertisements that St. Catherine's Street has many clubs and if we do intend to stay we can possibly visit some of these clubs.

 Dr. Simon: What are they?

 Barney Hill: They are nightclubs, and they were advertising shows, and I thought this would be something different to see. I notice on the small portion of the map of Montreal City how I can find St. Catherine's Street. (The Hills did not have a detailed city map) There's a robbery. A bank has been robbed and there is much confusion on the street. I pull over to the side and I'm looking at the beautiful buildings and the girls that are walking down the street and I compare them with New York. I think the fashions are much superior to the fashions in New York City. The girl's hair, the hair on their head is coiffured, they're stylishly dressed, and I'm enjoying looking at them.

 Dr. Simon: Is your wife with you?

 Barney Hill: Yes, my wife is with me.

 Dr. Simon: And the dog?

 Barney Hill: And the dog is with me. And I am parked by the side, and we are admiring the buildings, and we are both are talking about the way the women are dressed, and how stylish Montreal is. I have to get back out into the traffic again, and I am reluctant to do this. Yet I must do it. And I locate St. Catherine's Street and it's like any typical street in a large city. Traffic is everywhere and I think that we should find a motel if we are going to stay overnight. To my chagrin, all motels are located quite a distance--or to me a distance from the city. And we're riding around, and I'm lost.

I see a few Negroes and I'm amazed.  I had not realized that there were Negroes in Montreal. And I am quite a distance from the downtown section and all of the buildings are wrought iron-like stairways on the outside of the buildings. And I pull over to a service station and I ask how I can get back to my route. And he doesn't understand me, and he suggests that I go around to the side to the men's room. He points in that direction, and I realize that he doesn't understand English. So, we, I put $2.00 worth of gas in the car and drive off. I locate a policeman directing traffic.

 Dr. Simon: Why did you put $2.00 worth of gas in the car instead of filling it?

 Barney Hill: I did not want gas.

 Dr. Simon: I see.

 Barney Hill: When I stopped to ask directions...

 Dr. Simon: In other words, you felt you ought to repay them. Is that it?

 Barney Hill. I thought I should do something. And I pulled over to the side and I asked a policeman how can I find, I keep thinking, Route 3 and he does speak English very haltingly with a strong accent. But he does give me the directions. I'm passing by a beautiful school. It’s a Catholic school. I see the priest out there. It has beautiful rolling grounds and it’s sitting up on a hill- Its a very beautiful school in Montreal. And again, I miss my turn to the right, but I'm not too concerned. I know I can continue straight and make another complete right turn and I'll be back on the street I want. The cars are driving all over, and I think we want to get out of the city as quickly as possible.  I make my right turn, and then I make my left turn, and I see my bridge that I want, and I get to the bridge. I pay a 25-cent toll, and I leave the city.

I see signs…we are getting hungry. I am hungry. Betty is hungry. And the signs are advertising food. I cannot read it; it's in French. We decide to stop. We're out in the country. I have passed by many signs…many restaurants, not restaurants, but diners…roadside places to eat, but I decide the traffic is still too congested, and it's about the hour that most people are getting off from work. I want to avoid this as much as possible and put distance between me and the city of Montreal. And so, I do not stop at these places. I know it is approximately an hour later I stop in a very quiet roadside spot. It's a typical spot. You just walk there up to a ……I've got the picture in my mind……..It's difficult to explain it. It's just a roadside stand.

They do not speak any English, and they think my wife is French. They try to find out is she is French, and they seem that it is puzzling that she cannot understand them. But finally, we do get a hot dog and go out around the side of the house, of this roadside stand and we eat. I take the little dog out of the car and feed her bits of the food. She's happy to walk around and wag her tail. It is about 5:30 and I want to be on my way. The road looks… (Dr. Simon interrupts.)

 Dr. Simon: Is it 5:30 in the morning or in the evening?

 Barney Hill: In the evening. I plan to travel as far as I can, and if I'm too tired, we'll stop in New Hampshire in the mountains, and if I am not too tired, we will continue on to Portsmouth.

     Then I see many places that are selling apples. There are apples everywhere and I want to stop and yet I say I'll stop at the next place because I am making such good traveling distance, time. But I don't stop, and I see huge mountains, and I think that I'm going to have to drive through all of these mountains because even when I get to New Hampshire, I will be in mountain areas, and I don't like that.

 Dr. Simon: Do you fear mountains? Do you or what?

 Barney Hill: I don't fear mountains. Usually, mountains are desolate and it's difficult to find a place to stay. This is what I think. I'm concerned that I want to get past the mountains. There were only farms. I see a beautiful small city; it's not a city. It's a resort. I am not too tired to stop, yet I think when I check my map, this would not be a bad place to stop and to continue to drive to Portsmouth the next morning. But I drive past. This seems to be typical. It has been only since I have been married to Betty that I stop whenever she asks me to. When I drive by myself any distance I keep wanting to stop at the next restaurant, the next diner, the next gas station, but I'm driving fast, and I don't stop. I go through this resort town. I make… it's a puzzling place.

I see where I want to go. It doesn't look like what it should look like on my map. I continue. It's a narrow type of road in this city. Cars are coming in both directions and finally I pass that. I'm glad. It's getting dark. I see the shadows and trees and I know I can reach Vermont on Route 114, and then it is a short distance to New Hampshire. The countryside is very quiet, a house, and I keep thinking if anything happened could I go up to any of these houses and make my wishes known if I would need assistance? And I keep thinking how friendly the houses look.

 Dr. Simon: How what the houses look?

 Barney Hill: Friendly. And I keep driving. I am concerned about going through Customs.  

 Dr. Simon: Why?

 Barney Hill: I have a gun in the trunk of the car.

 Dr. Simon: What sort of gun?

 Barney Hill: It's a 32 pistol and it is hidden in the well of the trunk of the car with the trunk mat over it.  I think, “Why did I do this?  Why did I bring this gun?” And I know it is that I believe in the hostility of white people, particularly when there is an interracial couple. And yet, I could not get to the gun if any hostility did occur.

 Dr. Simon: Had you hidden it there when you took it up with you, in the same place?

 Barney Hill:  Yes. When I left Portsmouth at morning, about 5 o'clock. It was dark and I secreted the gun in the trunk.

 Dr. Simon: Go on. It is all sharp and clear.

 Barney Hill: The French—the Canadian French of the Customs building did not look at my car; just the dog and we had papers proving that we had brought the dog into Canada. And he waved us on pleasantly, but the American Customs asked me to open the trunk, and he looked at our equipment and he said, "What is this?" and I said, “Many times when we are on the highway we will stop and cook our food and this is our cooking equipment.” He said, "A good idea," and I hope your trip was pleasant and he waved us on.

It was humorous because he asked my wife repeatedly where she was born, but when I said I was born in Virginia, he accepted this without any further questioning, and I could tell that I had no trouble getting past customs whenever I am in Canada.

 Dr. Simon: Was this your first trip to Canada?

 Barney Hill: I had been to Canada in 1954 with my two boys and their mother.

 Dr. Simon:  Was this by your previous marriage?

 Barney: By my previous marriage and we entered into America in (*unintelligible), New York. My eyes keep wanting to open.

 Dr. Simon: Why?

 Barney Hill: I don't know. 114…  It's dark, it's not a good road, but it's a short distance to New Hampshire, and I see the signs for Colebrook. It is welcome. I feel alert. I feel that my trip is over, and I am on Route 3, and I see Route 3 going to the left, and the right and straight-ahead. And I become confused, and I realize I want to go straight, not to the left.  And I decide to stop and check the map, and I turn around and I go back to a restaurant I had passed, and I park, and we go in. (* This is Howard's restaurant in Colebrook, NH.) 

There is a dark skinned woman in there… I think dark by Caucasian standards, and I wonder "Is she a light skinned Negro or is she Indian or is she white?” And she waits on us and she is not very friendly, and I notice this, and others are there, and they are looking at me and at Betty. And they seem to be friendly or pleased, but this dark skinned woman doesn’t, and I wonder if she is Negro, and she is wondering if I know she is negro and is passing for white. (*She was Native American and had worked at Howard's Restaurant for many years. It was after 9 PM and she might have been unhappy because she had to cook on the grill, which would extend her day.)

I eat a hamburger, and I become impatient with Betty to drink her coffee so we can get started, and the clock on the wall says five minutes after ten, and I know we'll be in Portsmouth, I think by 2 o'clock.

 Dr. Simon: Did you say just a while ago that it was one ten or one fifteen?

 Barney Hill: Route 114.

 Dr. Simon: I see. Alright, go on.

 Barney Hill: I am, I see it is very dark, there's no traffic, and Betty has asked me to stop the  car and let Delsey out. Delsey is the dog.

 Dr. Simon: Why is she named Delsey?

 Barney Hill: I think that the people that owned her before called her Dolce and Betty called her Delsey and this became her name.

 Dr. Simon: I see. Go on. You stopped to take Delsey out.

 Barney Hill: I keep going back to Canada. (*Not physically, only in his thoughts. He had failed to mention this restaurant stop earlier in his interview.) I stop in Coaticook, Canada. And I decide to eat, and we go into… I cannot get close to the restaurant, so I park on the street, and we must walk to the restaurant. Everybody on the street, passing us by, is looking and we go into this restaurant, and all eyes are upon us. And I see what I call the stereotype of the hoodlum with the duck-tail haircut, and I immediately go on guard against any hostility, and no one says anything to me. And the waitress speaks very little English. But we tamp on out what we think we want on the menu, and we are served. (*Barney was treated well and there was no hostility toward him. His concern is consistent with the concerns of a black man in 1961. There was much hostility toward people of color, and particularly when there was an interracial couple.)

 Dr. Simon: Now, this other restaurant that you are in…where you have this dark-skinned woman. Was that in Canada?

 Barney Hill: That was in Colebrook, New Hampshire.

Dr. Simon: Now how was it that you went back to Canada? Was this a memory you were having again? 

Barney Hill: I just went back. (*In memory, not physically.) 

Dr. Simon: I see. Go ahead. 

Barney Hill: I went back because when Betty was telling me to stop the car, when we left Colebrook, New Hampshire, and we are now in the country part of New Hampshire, I was thinking of Coaticook and that I should get a hold of myself, and not think that everyone (*a white person) is hostile. Or rather, suspect hostility when there is no hostility there. And it was a very pleasant restaurant, and the people were friendly, and I wondered why this is so important to me. And why was I ready to be defensive just because these boys were wearing a style of haircut? 

Dr. Simon: Tell me, did you actually go back to Canada from Colebrook or…. 

Barney Hill: No, I was thinking of that when I was in New Hampshire, when Betty asked me to stop and let the dog go for a walk. (This occurred at the Mt. Cleveland Picnic Area south of Twin Mountain. Barney has forgotten to mention Betty's initial sighting south of Lancaster.)

Dr. Simon: Oh. Good. 

Barney Hill: That's when my thoughts went back. 

Dr. Simon:  Yes. 

Barney:  And I think I will stop. I will stop. She's not squirming; she's still under the seat. And I don't see a spot to stop, and I have passed several places I could have pulled off safely from the main highway. But, I say, “Well I will stop at the next one.” And I have not stopped, and Betty said, "Look, there's a star moving." And I look and I see a star. It's funny, but I said, “Betty, that's a satellite. We are seeing a satellite.”

And then, I pulled over to the side of the road and Betty jumped out on her side with the binoculars, and I got the chain, and I hooked it to the dog on her collar and say, "Come on Delsey.  Let's get out." And she jumps out and I look toward the sky, and I look back at Delsey and walk her around to the trunk of the car, and I'm saying, "Hurry up, Betty, so I can get a look." And Betty passes the binoculars to me, and I see that this is not a satellite. It is an airplane. It is an airplane you can see…I think you can see the rows of windows, and it is an airplane. And I tell Betty this, and give the binoculars back to her, and I am satisfied. 

Dr. Simon: What kind of a plane was it? 

Barney Hill: I look, and it is to the right, and it does not go where I thought it would go. It does not go past me to my right shoulder. I think it will pass my right shoulder off in a distance going to the north. I am facing west, and my right is to the north and it does not go to the north. 

Dr. Simon: Does it have propellers? 

Barney Hill: I think, "This is strange."  I cannot tell. I cannot hear a motor. I know that it has propellers. 

Dr. Simon: Was your engine running? 

Barney Hill: My engine was running.  

Dr. Simon: How about the noise that it was making before you had it greased? 

Barney Hill: It was not making this noise, and I did not pay attention to my engine running. I was concerned that it would not cut off, while I was standing there with all of the lights on to the car, and the battery would run down. And I was concerned, and I looked at the exhaust and I could tell that the smoke was still coming from the exhaust. 

Dr. Simon: From the exhaust of………. 

Barney Hill: My car. So, I did not concern myself too much after that. And this object that was a plane was not a plane. It was…Oh, it was funny. It was coming around toward us. I looked up and down the road and I thought how dark it is. What if a bear were to come out and I returned to the car and say, "Let's go Betty. It's nothing but a plane. They're coming over this way. They've changed course. Probably it’s a piper cub."  And I drive. (*Before he walks Delsey, Barney removes his gun from the trunk, fearing the presence of bears in this picnic area. Again, his memory is out of sequence. However, his accurate memory returns in a later session.) 

Dr. Simon: A piper cub would have one or two windows in it, wouldn't it? You said you saw windows. 

Barney Hill: This is what I said. This is what I saw when I returned to my car…a piper cub. 

Dr Simon: You saw a piper cub. 

Barney Hill: I drive, and Betty is still looking, and she says, "Barney that is not a plane.  It is still following us." And I stop and I look, and I see it is still out there off in a distance. So, I search for a place to pull off the road. I see a dirt road to the right of the main highway, and I think this one is a good place where I can pull off. If any car comes it won't strike me. And I get out of the car, and I am thinking this is strange, cause it is still there, and Betty said, I think she said…………I am mad with her. I said, I believe Betty is trying to make me think this is a flying saucer. (*I believe that Barney has misremembered this stop. Neither he nor Betty mentioned it again, only the stop when he walked the dog.) 

Dr. Simon: All right. Let's stop right there for now. Until I speak to you again you will not hear any sound. You will be comfortable and relaxed. Rest comfortably until I speak to you again. (pause) You think Betty is trying to make you think this is a flying saucer. 

Barney Hill: I'm wondering, “Why doesn't it go away?”  And I stop and I look again, and I see where it has gone up ahead of us on Cannon Mountain, and I think when I get past The Old Man of the Mountain, it will be a good area to look to see this thing. I am going to report it. 

Dr. Simon: Do you still think it was a piper cub? 

Barney Hill: I am wondering why these pilots are military, and they shouldn't do that. They shouldn't do that. They will make a person have an accident by flying around like that. And what if they dive at me? The military should not do that. 

Dr. Simon: Was it a single engine plane? 

Barney Hill: I do not know. 

Dr. Simon: You still saw no propellers anywhere? 

Barney Hill: I saw no propellers. 

Dr. Simon: Was it light enough to see?     

Barney Hill: There is a light moving through the sky, and I heard no noise, and I think, “This is ridiculous and Betty, it is not a flying saucer. What are you doing that for? You want to believe in this thing, and I don't.” And it still is there, and I wish I could pass a state trooper or someone because this is dangerous. 

Dr. Simon: What was the danger? 

Barney Hill: I am thinking of bathing in French Creek with my two boys, and this plane came overhead and dove straight for us and pulled up just a few inches from the state park. 

Dr. Simon: At French Creek? 

Barney Hill: In Pennsylvania; French Creek, Pennsylvania. 

Dr. Simon: Was that a piper cub? 

Barney Hill: It was a jet plane; a fighter plane and I feel it in my chest. The explosion when it went up in the air again and my ears…I feel like I'm bursting. I think of that, and I become angry with this plane that is flying around, that it might do that. And it was a frightening sound…the boom. (*at French Creek in PA.)

Dr. Simon: The jet that is at French Creek? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Now, if there is any sound from the piper cub, you can hear it now. 

Barney Hill: I can't hear any sound. 

Dr. Simon: No sound whatever? 

Barney Hill: And I want to hear a jet. Oh, I want to hear a jet so badly. I want to hear it. 

Dr. Simon: Why do you want to hear a jet? 

Barney Hill: Because Betty is making me mad—she’s making me angry because she is saying, "Look at that. It's strange, it's not a plane. Look at it." And I keep thinking, “It's got to be, and I want to hear a hum. I want to hear a motor.” 

Dr. Simon: How far away was it? 

Barney Hill: It was, oh it wasn't far. It was about 1,000 feet I guess. 

Dr. Simon: A thousand feet? If it were a piper cub, do you think it would have been silent at that distance? 

Barney Hill: I do not. I know it is not a piper cub. 

Dr. Simon: How do you happen to know so much about piper cubs? 

Barney Hill: I thought it was a piper cub because I had seen piper cubs landing on the water at Lake Winnipesaukee. And I've seen them landing on the ice and I stopped my car and said, "Look, there's another one." And we enjoyed watching these planes. I knew I was in the mountain area where I had seen piper cubs flying, and I thought this was a piper cub.

 Dr. Simon: All right.

 Barney Hill: It was not. It was too fast. It moved too fast. It would go up and down and it could go back so fast. It could go away and come back.

Dr. Simon: Did it go back and forth, or did it go in circles like a plane does? 

Barney Hill: It would go toward the west, and without looking as if it turned, it would come straight back. It would go like a…I think of a paddle with the ball on a rubber. You hit the ball, and the ball goes straight out, and comes straight back, without a circle. And I think only a jet could fly that fast, and I am hoping that I can find a good place where I can stop and really see this thing, whatever it is. I see a wigwam and I recognize this place, and I feel safe. I feel less in the barren hostility of this wooded area. (*This is in the tourist area on Route 3 in Lincoln, south of Franconia Notch.) 

Dr. Simon: What is this place? 

Barney Hill: It is Indian Head. I have been there before and I feel comforted that I see a familiar place, and I think I will get a good look at this because Betty was very annoyed. She was annoyed by telling me, "Look!", and I can't look; I have to drive the car. 

Dr. Simon: Did you think she was serious? 

Barney Hill: I knew she was serious. 

Dr. Simon: She was excited? 

Barney Hill: And I knew Betty only becomes excited, rarely. She does not become…She does not get involved, like I do, emotionally, as quickly, so this angered me because I knew she was excited, and it would have to be something making her excited. 

Dr. Simon: You said you thought she was trying to make you believe this was a flying saucer. Had you talked about flying saucers? 

Barney Hill: No. We…is this ever or when? Well, I think, “Yes, we talked about flying saucers, and no one said anything conclusive, except they might exist. Betty said she believed in them.” (*This was in 1957.)

Dr. Simon: She did believe in them? 

Barney Hill: I felt that…. believed that ….it wasn't that important. I didn't believe in them. 

Dr. Simon: But she did. 

Barney Hill: Yes, Betty did believe in flying saucers. 

Dr. Simon: Did she have any reason for believing in them? 

Barney Hill: Her sister…I am thinking of visiting her mother and father in Kingston, New Hampshire, and they live in a nice quiet area…only three houses. her two sisters and her mother’s house are located there, and at night you can look at the sky and you see millions of stars, and I think how beautiful this is.

And we were talking about satellites. The Russians have sent up Sputnik and her father was talking about Sputnik, and you could see it there in this spot at certain hours. And we began talking about flying……..We did not talk about that. We talked about life on other planets. And then Betty's sister said she had seen an object flying; long and cigar shaped and smaller objects going to it and flying away from it. (*This was a multiple witness sighting in 1957. I was not aware of my mother Janet Miller's multiple witness sighting until September 20, 1961.) And I listened, and I did not I did not criticize. But I thought nothing. I just listened and I was indifferent to the conversation. So, we did talk about flying saucers. But I had not talked about flying saucers since 1957 when we were talking about Sputnik. And this was 1961. 

Dr. Simon: Well, we're back in "61" now. And you are looking for a place where you can stop and observe this, and Betty has been constantly egging you on. 

Barney Hill: I want to wake up. (*Emphatically!)

Dr. Simon: You are not going to wake up.  You are in a deep sleep, you're comfortable, relaxed. This is not going to trouble you. Go on. You can remember everything now.    

Barney Hill: It's right over my right. God, what is it? And I try to maintain control so Betty cannot tell I am scared. God, I'm scared! 

Dr. Simon: It's all right. You can go right on and experience it. It will not hurt you now. 

Barney Hill: (*emotionally upset) I, I've gotta get my gun! (*screaming) Ugh! Ugh! I've gotta wake up! (*screams) I gotta get my gun! (*frantic screaming while Dr. Simon reassures him that is all right. Barney cries and pleads) Oh, Lord! 

Dr. Simon: All right. Go to sleep. Calm now.  Relax, deeply relax. Deeply relaxed. You will not have to make any outcry. But you can remember it now. Keep remembering. You feel you have to get your gun. 

Barney Hill: (*Barely audible) Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Its going to harm you, you felt. 

Barney Hill: I open the trunk of my car, and I get it, and I get back in the car. (*This is an inaccurate memory. He retrieved his gun from the trunk of the car during his first stop south of Twin Mountain near the Mt. Cleveland Picnic Area, when he feared the presence of bears in his vicinity, while he walked the dog. See hypnosis sessions 2 and 6for further clarification.) 

Dr. Simon: All right. Keep reasonably calm. 

Barney Hill: (whimpering) I put it in my coat and then I get out with the binoculars, and then it is there, and I look. And I look and it's just overhead, and I think I'm not afraid.  I'll shoot it down. I'm not afraid. And I walk out, and I walk across the road. (Shrieking) Oh, there it is, up there. Oh, God damn it! Oh! 

Dr. Simon: Calm down. It's there. You've seen it. It's not going to hurt you. Go on. 

Barney Hill: Why doesn't it go away? Look at it. (*nearly unintelligible whining) There's a man there. There’s a man…Heeeeee…… (*Barney breaks down in fear and anguish.) Is he a captain? What is he? He's gonna look at me. 

Dr. Simon: Just a minute. Let's go back a little bit now. You say there…..Did you say it was a thousand feet away? A thousand yards? 

Barney Hill: It doesn't look that far. It's very big and it's not that far. And I can see it tilted toward me. 

Dr. Simon: What does it look like now? When it tilted, did you see wings? 

Barney Hill: It looks like a big, big pancake with windows and rows of windows and lights, not lights, just like one huge light. 

Dr. Simon: Rows of windows like a commercial plane? 

Barney Hill: Rows of windows. They're not like a commercial plane because they curve around to the sides of this pancake, and I say, "My God no!"  I have to shake my head. I got, I got…. This can't be true. This isn't there. Oh, it's still there. And I look up and down the road. Can't somebody come and tell me that this is not there? It can't be. And…. 

Dr. Simon: You're still asleep but you can see it all clearly.  

Barney Hill: It's there. 

Dr Simon: You're sure it's there? 

Barney Hill: Yuh. 

Dr. Simon: You weren't having a dream? 

Barney Hill: It's there! 

Dr. Simon: All right. Go to sleep. Calm now. Relax, deeply relax. Deeply relaxed. You will not have to make any outcry.  But you can remember it now.  Keep remembering.  You feel you have to get your gun. 

Barney Hill: (Barely audible) Yes. 

Dr. Simon: It’s going to harm you, you felt.  

Barney Hill: I open the trunk of my car and I get it and I get back in the car.  (Becoming upset) 

(*This is a false memory. Barney retrieved his gun from the trunk of the car during his first stop near Twin Mountain, when he feared the presence of bears in his vicinity, while he walked the dog. He took his gun from the car seat and placed it in his pocket. For clarification, see hypnosis session 6.) 

Dr. Simon: All right.  Keep reasonably calm.  

Barney Hill:  (whimpering) I put it in my coat and then I go out with the binoculars, and then it is there, and I look. I look and it's just overhead, and I think I'm not afraid. I'll shoot it down. I'm not afraid. And I walk out, and I walk across the road. (Shrieking) Oh, there it is, up there. Oh, God damn it! Oh! 

Dr. Simon: Calm down. It's there. You've seen it. It's not going to hurt you. Go on. 

Barney Hill: Why doesn't it go away?  Look at it.  (Whining.  Nearly unintelligible) There's a man.  Heeeeee……(breaks down) Is he a captain? What is he? He's gonna look at me.  

Dr. Simon: Just a minute.  Let's go back a little bit now.  You say there….Did you say it was a thousand feet away? A thousand yards? 

Barney Hill: It doesn't look that far. It's very big and it's not that far. And I can see it tilted toward me. 

Dr. Simon: What does it look like now? When it tilted, did you see wings? 

Barney Hill: It looks like a big, big pancake with windows and rows of windows and lights, not lights, just like one big light. 

Barney Hill: I touch my right arm. It's not my right. It's my left arm. And then I touch my right arm or is it my left arm? I'm confused. 

Dr. Simon: It's clearer now. You're relaxed. 

Barney Hill: It's still there. If I let my binoculars fall and dangle from my neck, and then start over again, maybe it won't be there. But it is. Why! What do they want? (*Exclaims) What do they want? One person looks friendly. He's friendly looking and he's looking at me over his right shoulder. And he's smiling. 

Dr. Simon: Could you see him clearly? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr Simon: What is his face like? What does he make you think of? 

Barney Hill: it’s round. I think of a red-headed Irishman. I don't know why. Oh, I think I know why. Because Irish are usually hostile to Negroes, and when I see a friendly Irish person, I react to it by thinking I will be friendly. I think this one that is looking over his shoulder is friendly.  

Dr. Simon: You say looking over his shoulder. Was he facing away from you? 

Barney Hill: Yes. He was facing a wall. 

Dr. Simon: You saw him through this window. Or you said it was a row of windows. 

Barney Hill: It was row of windows…..There is a huge row of windows only divided by struts or structures that prevented it from being one solid window. Or, then it would have been one solid window. And the evil face on the ……looks like a German Nazi. He is a Nazi. (*He was not a Nazi. Barney was comparing his fear of Nazi's during WWII  to his terror that night. He did not mention this false memory again.)

Dr. Simon: He is a Nazi. Did he have on a uniform? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon:  What kind of uniform? 

Barney:  Black. He had a black scarf around his neck dangling over his left shoulder. 

Dr. Simon: You pointed it out as if it were on you. 

Barney Hill: I never noticed that. (*Barney had a conscious, continuous memory of observing the “somehow not human” figure on the craft. Betty's letter to NICAP dated September 26, 1961, speaks of figures dressed in black, shiny uniforms. Barney reported it to family members when he returned to his home, and to NICAP Investigator, Walter Webb the following month. However, he had not previously noticed the scarf around the creature’s neck.) 

Dr. Simon: He's got a black scarf on, you think. How could you see these figures so clearly at that distance? 

Barney Hill: I was looking at him with binoculars. 

Dr. Simon: Oh. Did they have faces like other people? You say that one reminded you of a red headed Irishman. 

Barney Hill: His eyes were slanted. (*hauntingly) I see it, so his eyes are slanted….   (*In a haunted tone of voice) His eyes were slanted. It was not like a Chinese. Oh,

 I, I feel like a rabbit. I feel like a rabbit. (*fearful) 

Dr. Simon: What do you mean by that? 

Barney Hill: I was hunting for rabbits in Virginia, and this cute little bunny went into a bush that was not very thick, and my cousin Marge was on one side of the bush, and I was on the other with a hat, and the poor little bunny thought he was safe, and it tickled me cause he was just hiding behind a little stalk, which meant security to him when I pounced on him, and threw my hat on him and captured the poor little bunny who thought he was safe. It’s funny, I thought of that right out there on the road. I feel like that rabbit. 

Dr. Simon: What was Betty doing all of this time? 

Barney Hill: I, I, I'm not close to her. I don't know. 

Dr. Simon: You were out there by yourself? 

Barney Hill: I don't think of her. (*When the craft crossed the highway, Barney followed it to the field while Betty remained in the lighted car.) 

Dr. Simon: You don't think of her? Is she saying anything? 

Barney Hill: I can't hear her. 

Dr. Simon: Did you make any outcry to her, the way you did to me? 

Barney Hill: I… I… I can't remember. I don't know. I did not. 

Dr. Simon: You would remember it if you did. 

Barney Hill: I did not. But, I know this creature, this leader is telling me something. 

Dr. Simon: He's telling you something? How? How is he getting it to you? 

Barney Hill: I can see it in his face. 

Dr. Simon: Do you see his lips move? Yes? 

Barney Hill: No, his lips aren't moving.  

Dr. Simon: Yes. Go on. He's telling you……. 

Barney Hill: He's looking at…me… and he's just telling me, "Don't be afraid."  I'm that bunny. I'm going to be pounced on! I think I'm safe. But he didn't tell me I was that bunny.  

Dr. Simon: What did he tell you? 

Barney Hill: “Stay there and keep looking. Just keep looking and stay there. And just keep looking. Just keep looking.” 

Dr. Simon: Could you hear each other? 

Barney Hill: Oh, I've got to pull these binoculars away from my eyes. Cause if I don't, I'll just keep staying there. 

Dr. Simon: Could you hear him tell you this? 

Barney Hill: Oh no. He didn't say it. 

Dr. Simon: You felt he said it. 

Barney Hill: I know. 

Dr. Simon: You know he did. 

Barney Hill: Yes. Ya. "Just stay there,” he's saying to me. He's talking in my head! (*telepathic message. This is a common occurrence during a close encounter experience.)

Dr. Simon: All right. 

Barney Hill: I'm pulling the binoculars away. (*Pleading) God, give me strength! Pull them down! (*Unintelligible screaming) Pull these binoculars down and run! God! If there's a God, give me strength! I've gotta get away! (*Shrieking) Oh! Oh! I've gotta get away from here! 

Dr Simon: (*Over Barney's shrieks) All right. Calm down. Calm down. 

Barney Hill: I've gotta get away! 

Dr. Simon: How could you be sure he was telling you this? Calm down. You're still in sleep. How could you be sure he was telling you this? 

Barney Hill: (*heavy breathing) His eyes. His eyes. (*crying) I've never seen his eyes before! Oh! Oh! Oh! 

Dr. Simon: But you said they were friendly. 

Barney Hill: Oh, no! Not the leaders! I said only the one looking over his shoulder was friendly. 

Dr Simon: Oh, I see. Only the one who was…How did you know the other one was the leader? 

Barney Hill: Because everybody moved. Everyone was standing there looking at me. But everyone moved to these levers or in the back to this big board. It looked like a board. And only this one with the black shiny jacket and the scarf stayed at the window. He was the only one. 

Dr. Simon: Slanted eyes. What did that make you think of? 

Barney Hill: I don't know. I never saw eyes slanted like that. 

Dr. Simon: What was the difference between them and… yes, go on. 

Barney Hill: They began to be round and went back like that and like that. And they went up like that. Can I draw it? 

Dr. Simon: Do you want to draw it? I'm giving you a pad and a pencil. You can open your eyes, and you can draw whatever you want. 

Barney Hill: (Barney draws it.) 

Dr. Simon: You can draw it now. Go ahead. Alright. Do you want to let me see it? Well now, which eye is that? 

Barney Hill: It's the left eye. 

Dr. Simon: The left eye. As you're looking at his left eye or……. the left eye as you're looking at it. 

Barney Hill: As I was looking at it. 

Dr. Simon: As you were looking at it. Then it would be the same as your left eye. In other words, they were slanted……. This is where his nose is. Is that it? 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: What is this curl here? That's the other eye. What's that you're drawing? 

Barney Hill: That's the visor. 

Dr. Simon: The visor? Was this a military hat he had on? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Like one of our Army hats? 

Barney Hill: Like an officer's hat. (*Many of the photos I have received, in my case investigations, show headgear. It appears to be a technological device that from a distance, could easily be mistaken for an officer’s cap.) 

Dr. Simon: Like an officer's hat. 

Barney Hill: That's his scarf. 

Dr. Simon: All right. Now you can relax and go on with your story.  

Barney Hill: I'm driving. 

Dr. Simon: You've gone back into the car now? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: You took down your binoculars did you? 

Barney Hill: I've got them down. 

Dr. Simon: So, you got into the car. Did you speak to Betty? 

Barney Hill: I'm getting a hold of myself. I'm saying, “Get a hold of myself…. (*Unintelligibly soft) I drive the car, and I told Betty to look out. The object was still around us. I could feel it around us. I saw it when it passed by…..the object…… when I got into the car. It swung around. It was out there. I knew it was out there. Well, it's out there. It's so weird. It's…..(*Unintelligibly soft) it's funny. 

Dr. Simon: Yes. Speak a little louder. 

Barney Hill: I know Route 3. Oh, those eyes. They're there in my brain. Oh please. Can't I wake up? 

Dr. Simon: Stay asleep a while longer. We'll get through this all right. We'll get through it all right. All of your feelings, tell me and it won't upset you so much. 

Barney Hill: They're there. Isn't that funny? I'm in the woods. That crazy dog. She stays in the car all of the time. Isn't that funny? She stays in the car. 

Dr. Simon: She doesn't bark nor do anything.

Barney Hill: No, she just stays there. 

Dr. Simon: What about Betty? 

Barney Hill: I don't know. 

Dr. Simon: Doesn't she say anything? 

Barney Hill: No. (*Distressed) I don't understand. Are we being robbed? 

Dr. Simon: What makes you think you're being robbed? 

Barney Hill: I know it's in my mind and I don't want to say it. 

Dr. Simon: Well, you can say it to me. You can say it now. 

Barney Hill: They're men. All with black jackets, and I don't have any money. I don't have anything. I don't know.  Oh, oh the eyes are there. Always the eyes are there, and they're telling me I don't have to be afraid. Is there an accident down the road? What's the red, bright red? 

Dr. Simon: Bright red? 

Barney Hill:  Yuh. Orange red. 

Dr. Simon: And where is that? 

Barney Hill: Right down the road. 

Dr. Simon: Down the road. 

Barney Hill: I don't have to be afraid, but they won't talk to me. 

Dr. Simon: Who won't talk to you? 

Barney Hill: The men. 

Dr. Simon: In the vehicle? 

Barney Hill: No. They are standing in the road. 

Dr. Simon: There are men standing in the road? 

Barney Hill: Yuh, and they won't talk to me. Only the eyes are talking to me. I don't understand it. The eyes don't have no body. They're just eyes. I know. I know. It's got to be a wild cat up a tree. Yuh, that's what it's got to be. Oh, (*laughs) I know what it is… the Cheshire cat in Alice in Wonderland. That's what it is. (*laughs) I don't have to be afraid of that. That disappeared too and only the eyes remained. (*Barney is experiencing what investigators call “the Oz affect. They have taken control of his mind.)

Dr. Simon: Then you didn't see this? 

Barney Hill: I saw it. 

Dr. Simon: You saw it. Are you still seeing this man? How about this vehicle? 

Barney Hill: The eyes are telling me "Don't be afraid." 

Dr. Simon: That's the leader's eyes? 

Barney Hill: I don't even see the leader. 

Dr. Simon: The other eyes. 

Barney Hill: All I see are these eyes. 

Dr. Simon: The eyes now. 

Barney Hill: I'm not even afraid that they're not connected to a body. They're just there.

They're just up close to me pressing into my eyes. (*This is common in alien abduction cases.) 

Dr. Simon: And what's happened to this vehicle? 

Barney Hill: I don't see any vehicle. 

Dr. Simon: It's gone? 

Barney Hill: It’s there. No, it's not gone, but I don't see it. I'm just there. 

Dr. Simon: Where are you? Are you in the car? 

Barney Hill: No, I'm just suspended. I'm just floating around. Oh, how funny. I'm just floating. I want to get back to the car…..Just floating. 

Dr. Simon: Were you floating about or is that the way you feel? 

Barney Hill: It's the way I feel. 

Dr. Simon: Are you still outside of the car? 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: You're in the car. 

Barney Hill: I'm not in the car. I'm near the car. I'm not in the woods. I'm not on the road. 

Dr. Simon: Well, where are these men? 

Barney Hill: I don't know. 

Dr. Simon: ……Who were on the road? 

Barney Hill: I don't know. (*In amazement) I'm just floating about. O gheez, it's the funniest thing Betty…..The funniest thing. I never believed in flying saucers, but I don't know. Mighty mysterious. Yuh. Well, I guess I won't say anything to anybody about this. It's too ridiculous. Oh yes, it's really funny. I wonder where they came from. Oh ghee, I wish I had gone with them. 

Dr. Simon: You wish you had gone with them? 

Barney Hill: Yes. It's very (*intelligible) to go to some distant planet. Maybe this will prove the existence of God. Imagine that, proving the existence of God on other planets? Were you scared? I wasn't. No, I wasn't afraid. It's ridiculous, just you and I talking about it. Well, we're getting into Portsmouth a little later than I expected. (*Upon their arrival Betty noticed that her watch had stopped, so she set it to the time on her home clock. It still reads 5:16. Additionally, the watch’s face is partially discolored green.) 

Dr. Simon: All Right. We'll stop there. You will be calm and relaxed. You will forget everything we have said in this period together until I ask you to recall it again; you will forget everything we have done until I ask you to recall it again. It will not trouble you.  It will not worry you. You will not be concerned. You will remain comfortable and relaxed. You'll have no pains, no aches, and no anxiety. Whenever I say "Trance Barney." you will go into a deep sleep and obey all of my commands. You will recall what I want you to recall and what I tell you to. You will forget what has transpired here until I ask you to recall it again. You're comfortable and relaxed now. In a deep sleep. You have forgotten all that transpired in our session. When I wake you, you will repeat exactly what you said and did when I woke you a few moments ago. Be comfortable relaxed, no pains, no anxiety. You will repeat as soon as I wake you, all that you said and did when I woke you a moment ago. You may wake now. 

Barney Hill: Wow! Ten minutes after eight? Didn't you bring me in here at ten minutes after eight? 

Dr. Simon: Yes. 

Barney Hill: Where was I? 

Dr. Simon: You've been right here with me. 

Barney Hill: Where are my cigarettes? Was I about to reach for a cigarette? 

Dr. Simon: It looked that way. Go ahead and have one. 

Barney Hill: I thought I was coming in here and you asked me to take this chair. Then I was going to reach for a cigarette, but I never reached for it. Two hours…an hour and a half… 

Dr. Simon: So, how do you feel? 

Barney Hill: I feel fine. 

Dr. Simon: Do you know what happened here? 

Barney Hill: I believe that you put me into a trance. I know the purpose of it, but I don't know… 

Dr. Simon: That's all right. We'll continue this next week, a week from today. Come up at eight o'clock again. 

Barney Hill: Eight o'clock next week. 

Dr. Simon: Both you and your wife. 

Dr. Simon's post session comment: During the explosive parts of the patient's discussion, he showed very marked grimacing, twisting, tears rushed down his cheeks. He would clutch his face and his head, and writhe in considerable agony. When he first drew the eye he made scribbles in the air, which were the shape of the eye, which he ultimately drew.  He actually drew a curve representing the left side of the face and drew the left eye in it without any other detail. When asked about which eye this was, in which he showed some confusion, he then drew the rest of the shape of the head, and also drew in the other eye, and the cap, and visor, and then as a sort of afterthought, he drew in the scarf. 

Then Mrs. Hill was induced by post-hypnotic suggestion for reinforcement in anticipation of the time when she will be interviewed. She had been waiting in the waiting room during this entire period. (*Deafening music was playing in the waiting room, so Betty could not hear Barney.) 

Session two presents a clearer understanding of what happened to Barney Hill. He has experienced a powerful emotional release and this has brought greater clarity to his memory. However, my comments will indicate memories that are probably confabulations because they are inconsistent with his conscious recall.

Dr. Simon asks Barney detailed questions regarding his UFO sighting and subsequent capture by alien beings. He briefly touches upon part of the physical exam, the Hills’ arrival home, and the highly polished magnetic spots on the trunk of their 1957 Chevy. He attempts to find a prosaic explanation for each segment of Barney's experience, but Barney explains each point in greater detail, thus eliminating questionable areas of concern. Barney discusses some of the physical evidence that leads him to conclude that his experience was real.                                  

Hypnosis session begins: 

Dr. Simon: Mr. Hill is now in the office. How have you been Mr. Hill?  

Barney Hill: I've been fine. I've been upset. 

Dr. Simon: Tell me about it. 

Barney Hill: Last week, after I left your office, I began having what I thought was a remembrance of what had taken place in the office. And this became quite disturbing to me. 

Dr. Simon: What did you remember? 

Barney Hill: I remembered eyes and that these eyes were telling me something. So, I became alarmed about this because I thought that my very sanity was in jeopardy. As a result of it, I was strongly considering calling you after reaching home, but I did not, and my wife and I went out to visit some friends and that relieved the tension. 

Dr. Simon: Is that the only thing you remember? 

Barney Hill: Just basically, yes. About my trip, which I thought was very interesting, because I had never thought about them before. I had never given any thought to them, such as stopping in New York and buying a six pack of beer and Betty and I taking it to the motel. I thought of how when we were told we could have the little doggie in I put her in the bathroom and tied her with a long chain because the bathroom was tiled. In case she made an accident it wouldn't soil the rug. These things seem to come back with…….. 

Dr. Simon. They seem to be things that you hadn't told me because I would remember that part. I told you that I wanted you to remember everything, and these were things that you had skipped. (*When we are having a conversation we do not state everything that enters our mind. This is true of hypnosis as well.) 

Barney Hill: Oh, I see. 

Dr. Simon: When you were in your trance, you were told to remember everything. These seem to be somewhat irrelevant details, but you hadn't mentioned them. You just mentioned them now, so maybe, you felt a little guilty that you hadn't mentioned them, all be it that they are probably irrelevant. Speaking of that, how much had you drunk along the trip? 

Barney Hill: That was the only thing. 

Dr. Simon: That six pack? 

Barney Hill: That six pack. 

Dr. Simon: The two of you during the course of the evening? 

Barney Hill: No, we drank, we each had one can of beer that Sunday evening and then we retired, and we brought back the four cans. 

Dr. Simon: I see. You hadn't been doing much drinking on the trip at all. 

Barney Hill: No. So that would have been the amount of alcohol intake. 

Dr. Simon: Did your anxiety fade away as the week went on? About the eyes……..? 

Barney Hill: It more or less did. Yes it did. All I can think about is it seemed to become sharpened last night. 

Dr. Simon: You seem quite concerned about this experience. You'll feel all right about it. You don't have to worry about your sanity. What do you think about this eye business? What does it make you think of? Does it connect up with anything? 

Barney Hill: No, it doesn't. It doesn't have…well, yes, I might say the only connection that it does have is a foreboding type of effect of betraying or having been given a warning. This is the only kind of effect that it has on me. 

Dr. Simon: Do you mean that you have been given a warning? 

Barney Hill: Yes, this kind of effect. 

Dr. Simon: Have you ever had that sort of feeling before? 

Barney Hill: No, I've never had anything like that before. 

Dr. Simon: About hypnosis…. do you think that the eyes play a part in that? 

Barney Hill: Do I feel that it is necessary….? 

Dr. Simon: Do you feel the eye plays a part in your feelings about hypnosis? 

Barney Hill: No, I don't think so. 

Dr. Simon: Then, you haven't been too concerned about my eyes? 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: I see. Well, you wanted me to take Betty and let you off the hook for a while. Is that it? 

Barney Hill: (*laughing) Well, that's what I thought. 

Dr. Simon: Do you recall the eyes as a part of the session we had? Or is it just something that hung over with you? 

Barney Hill: Well, it seems like the eyes hung over what I did and said, while I was being hypnotized. This is my intellectual… 

Dr. Simon: Well, that was the last thing we got onto over the last Saturday. And I think that it probably did carry over and I'll see to it that you don't have that anxiety. So, we will resume. You don't remember where we left off in your narration, so we will go back, and we can probably take some of that over again. Let's go back to a bit before the eyes came into the picture. All right, trance Barney. You are deeper and deeper and deeper asleep… fully relaxed… deep and deep and deep asleep. You are in a deep sleep. You have no fear or anxiety and now you won't be troubled by anything you remember, although you will remember everything. You will remember everything, all of your feelings and all of your actions. But they will not trouble you now because they are here with us. They will not trouble you and I'm here. Your sleep is deeper and deeper. Completely relaxed… deep asleep… far and far and far asleep…. deeply relaxed. You are in a deep, deep sleep. Deep asleep. Far asleep. Now you will remember everything that we have gone over about your trip from Montreal. You will go back a bit before you had these experiences with the eyes, and you can begin to tell me again about the experience with the unidentified object. You can start a little bit before we left off. Wherever you feel that you are especially remembering something. 

Barney Hill: I'm remembering being in the woods, parked and I have Delsey and I'm walking her around the back of the car. And Betty had asked me if I would let Delsey out. And Betty is standing off to the left of the car with the binoculars and she is looking at this unidentified flying object. I'm standing there looking up and down the highway because I have to relieve myself. And I do this, and I give Betty Delsey's chain, and I ask her to let me see, and I can only see a plane flying in the sky, and I tell her this is a plane, and it's on its way to Montreal where we just left. And I want to hurry and get back in the car and we'll start returning to Portsmouth. 

And Betty gets into the car, and she says, "Isn't that strange." And I am driving along, and she said, "It's still out there." And I look for another place to stop, and I noticed the object is still there and I think it is strange…..that it must be a piper cub and it's not making any sound. And I want to hurry up and get away because this is strange with this thing flying around. And I am certain that……I believe very strongly that it also can see us. It is a very dark night, and I feel exposed. 

Dr. Simon: Had you finished urinating? 

Barney Hill: Yes, I had. 

Dr. Simon: So, you were not exposed physically. 

Barney Hill: I feel I'm in an exposed situation where my car lights are very bright and it's very dark where I am, and I know this object is flitting around in the sky. I think of a fly flitting aimlessly in the sky with no pattern, as it is hovering over something it is about to light on, and I think that this thing out there is just hovering around.  And Betty is telling me to stop again, and I do. I said, "Betty, what are you trying to do? Make me think that I'm seeing something that isn't there? And I became very angry with her because I believe this is a plane, something that can be explained and I believe she is trying to make me think it is not. And this irritates me. 

Dr. Simon: What was her reply to this? 

Barney Hill: Betty's reply was "Well why is it doing what it is doing? Why isn't it going away? What is it doing? 

Dr. Simon: Now, this isn't going to upset you. This is not going to upset you, now. You will be able to tell me. You will tell me your feelings. It will not upset you. You will not be upset about it. Go ahead. 

Barney Hill: I said, "Betty, it can't…"  I was thinking. I did not say that to Betty. I was thinking … my mind was thinking… I was thinking that cannot be a plane. And that is why I was becoming upset because Betty was telling me it wasn't acting like any conventional type of flying craft. I somehow knew this and did not want to be told this. 

Dr. Simon: Did you feel that it wasn't acting like a conventional kind of flying craft? 

Barney Hill: Yes. I did. 

Dr. Simon: (Unintelligible) 

Barney Hill: It moved very peculiarly. It did not fly in any definite straight line. It would go up suddenly… 

Dr. Simon: You mean just rise vertically? 

Barney Hill: Yes, it would rise in a very straight up position and then fly for a short…horizontally, and then would dip down. And as it did this, I noticed the row of lights that was on it seemed to tilt and level off, even as I imagined the body of this thing…..that the position of the body of this thing would have been in. 

Dr. Simon: You mean as if it were banking? 

Barney Hill: As if it was banking. But banking doesn't seem to fit what I'm trying to describe. 

Dr. Simon: Um-huh. Take your time. 

Barney Hill: Because if it banked, I could think of a plane and know it as a plane. It just tilted. It did not bank in a swooping bank. It just…from a horizontal line, it just became a vertical line. 

Dr. Simon: How would you describe the shape of it? 

Barney Hill: I could not outline the shape. 

Dr. Simon: Well, an ordinary plane, even a piper cub tends to be somewhat cigar-shaped, even big helicopters. 

Barney Hill: Yes. The rows of lights were like a row of lights in a cigar-shaped pattern. Only that it was a straight line that I saw, and it was elongated. 

Dr. Simon: This thing wasn't … didn't you surmise that this thing was round like a so called flying saucer? 

Barney Hill: No, I didn't see… 

Dr. Simon: It did have some resemblance to an ordinary plane then. 

Barney Hill: At this time, yes. 

Dr. Simon: Do you imply that it changed its shape later? 

Barney Hill: Yes. As I continued to look further down the highway, I had a peculiar feeling that it was spinning. And I couldn't… 

Dr. Simon: You mean like a top? 

Barney Hill: Like a top. 

Dr. Simon: Now, when you spoke of this before you spoke of some lights down the highway. Red lights, I believe? Does that ring any bells? 

Barney Hill: Red lights. 

Dr. Simon: Or some lights down the highway as if men were working down there? 

Barney Hill: Yes, but that is further… 

Dr. Simon: Oh, later on? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Go on then, in your own way. 

Barney Hill: So, so…I continued to look, and I would stop, and I would leave and go, and Betty would insist that I stop, and we did this several times. (*They did not leave their vehicle during these stops. They only paused on the highway momentarily. I questioned Betty about this and she took me to the first stop at the Mt. Cleveland Picnic Area, the second stop at the Old Man of the Mountains, a third stop at the Flume, where they did not stop because they could not see the object through the tall trees, and the fourth stop south of Franconia Notch on Route 3 in North Lincoln. The fifth stop was at the abduction site.) 

Dr. Simon: Was this always to stop and look again? 

Barney Hill: To stop and look and when I can see the tramway mountain, far up ahead, I knew where I was. And I knew I would eventually pass by the Old Man in the Mountain, and the object seemed to have speeded up, and go around the right side of Cannon Mountain. And I was going around the left side at the base, and when I got to the where the Old Man of the Mountain figure was located, I stopped again and got a good look. And knew that this object seemed to still be out there, and it would stop when I stopped. And I thought this is strange and it moved, or I did not see it move. I started driving the car and Betty said, "It is moving behind the mountain once again."  And I was approaching a clear spot in which I saw two wigwams on my right, and I knew I was close to Indian Head. (* This was at Natureland south of Indian Head.) And I saw this object far off, even as I approached this spot by slowing down and looking, and then I tend to look down the road to drive, and Betty became very excited. She said, "Oh Barney, you must stop the car. Look at what it is doing!"  And I speed slower in my driving, and I look through the windshield, and on her side. The object looked as if it was right out there in front of the windshield, only I have to look up to see it. And I must have been driving five miles an hour because I had to put the car in low gear so it would not stall. And I said, "Oh this is funny." I thought of all these thoughts I had since I first saw this thing. I thought it's a piper cub. I thought it’s an airliner. I thought it is a military craft, and these military men are having fun with us. And I came to a complete stop, and I reached down on the floor of the car to my left and picked up the gun and put it in my pocket. 

Dr. Simon: You had already put the gun in there, from your trunk when you were concerned about it? (*He took the gun from the trunk at the first stop, at the Mt. Cleveland Picnic Area south of Twin Mountain. For more details, see Hypnosis Session number 6.) 

Barney Hill: Yes. And I put the gun in my pocket, and I got out of the car with the binoculars, and I stood with my arm on the door and my right arm partly on the top of the roof of the car. And I looked, and before I could get the binoculars up to my eyes, even as I did get them up there and the car was vibrating from the motor running, I stepped away, and the object shifted in an arc. And I thought, "How remarkable." It was a perfect arc. But, it continued to have a forward look facing me as if it swung, and did not move from its position, but just swung from position with the front still facing me. And it moved to my left, and I continued to look, and began walking across the highway, shaking my head, and trying to blink my eyes. Is this some kind of … something I could not explain? And if I looked down the highway and looked back (I hoped) it would be gone, and I continued to walk across the highway toward the front of my car, down the road, and I continued to look with my binoculars. Each time I would stop and look up, and then I would walk further toward it, and stop and look up. I thought, “How interesting, there is the military pilot, and he is looking at me, and I looked at him. And he looked at me, and there were several others looking at me, and I thought of a huge dirigible. And I thought of all the men lined up at the window of this huge dirigible and they were looking down at me. Then they moved to the back, and I continued to look at this one man that stood there. And I kept looking at him and looking at him. 

Dr. Simon: Is this the man you called the leader? 

Barney Hill: He was dressed differently. And I thought of the Navy and a submarine, and I thought the men that moved back were dressed something like lieutenants. But this other man was dressed in a black shiny coat with a cap on. 

Dr. Simon: When you spoke of these hoodlums on your trip, did they wear these black shiny coats as hoodlums often do? 

Barney Hill: No. They did not. 

Dr. Simon: There was no resemblance between them and this leader? 

Barney Hill: No. These Canadian men in Coaticook were dressed in conventional dress, but their hair was in the duckbill style. And I thought of them as hoodlums because of their hairstyle. 

Dr. Simon: Let's go back now, with this leader. 

Barney Hill: I looked at him and he looked at me, and I thought this is not going to harm me, and I wanted to get back to Betty and begin discussing this interesting thing we were looking at. And I kept looking at him and he looked at me. Then, I came back to the car and Betty, I thought, was flopping on the seat and I said, “Betty, were you excited?", and she said,"Why didn't you come back? I was screaming for you to come back. I couldn't understand why you were going out across the road." 

Dr. Simon: You hadn't heard her screams? 

Barney Hill: No, I did not hear her scream. I just thought she was flopping on the seat, but she said she had leaned across the seat so she would be closer to the open door, and holler for me to get back in the car. 

Dr. Simon: I see. We'll stop here for just a moment, and you won't be able to hear anything that goes on here. Just rest quietly. Feel comfortable. (*Dr. Simon stopped to check the recording machine, which seemed to have a buzzing sound and was behaving strangely.) All right Barney. You may resume now. 

Barney Hill: I returned to the car and began driving down the highway. I drove, I think, a few miles and noticed I was not on Route 3, and I could not understand that, because it is a straight highway. And I looked and I was being signaled to stop, and I thought, "I wonder if there is an accident? I do have my gun." And I put my hand on it. 

Dr. Simon: Let me interrupt again. What was it you saw down the highway? 

Barney Hill: I saw a group of men and they were standing in the highway, and it was brightly lit up as if it was almost daylight, but not day. It was not the kind of light of day. But it was brightly lighted, and they were coming toward me, and I had not had any warning as I had driven down this road before I suddenly saw this brightly lighted area. Or the area became brightly lighted, and they began coming toward me. And I did not think after that of my gun, and I became afraid (that) if I did think of my gun, I would be harmed. And if I did not, I would not be harmed. And they came and they assisted me out of the car.

Dr. Simon: Who assisted you? 

Barney Hill: These men. 

Dr. Simon: They assisted you out of the car? 

Barney Hill: I felt very weak. I felt very weak, but I wasn't afraid, and I can't even think, being confused. I am not bewildered. I can't even think of questioning what is happening to me, and I am being assisted. And I am thinking of the picture I saw many years ago, and this man is being carried to the electric chair, and I think of this, and I think I am in this man's position. And I am not being carried to the electric chair, but I think my feet are dragging and I think of this picture. I am not afraid. I feel like I am dreaming. (*This sensation is common among abductees under ET mind control.)

Dr. Simon: Are you asleep at the time? 

Barney Hill: My eyes are tightly closed, and I seem disassociated. 

Dr. Simon: Disassociated? What do you mean by that? 

Barney Hill: I am there, and I am not there. 

Dr. Simon: Where is Betty through all of this? 

Barney Hill: I don't know. I'm trying to think, “Where's Betty?”  I don't know. 

Dr. Simon: Are these men a part of your dream? 

Barney Hill: They are there, and I am there. I know they are there, but everything is black. My eyes are tightly closed. I can't believe what I think. 

Dr Simon: No? Is there anything else you're thinking that you haven't told me? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Yes? You can tell me now. 

Barney Hill: I am only thinking of mental pictures because my eyes are closed, and I think I am going up a slight incline, and my feet are not bumping on the rocks. That's funny, I thought of my feet bumping on the rocks. And they are going up smoothly, but I'm afraid to open my eyes because I am being told strongly, by myself, to keep my eyes closed. Don't open them. I don't want to be operated on. 

Dr. Simon: You don't want to be operated on? What makes you think of an operation? 

Barney Hill: I don't know. 

Dr. Simon: Have you ever been operated on? 

Barney Hill: Only for my tonsils. 

Dr. Simon: Does this feel like that, at that time? 

Barney Hill: I think like that, but my eyes are closed, and I only have mental pictures, and I am not in pain. I feel a slight feeling. 

Dr. Simon: You can stop there and rest for a moment. You will not hear anything else. (*Fixes tape recorder) All right, now you can go on. 

Barney Hill: I, I am cold. My private parts feel cold. And my pants are on, and I think my fly must be open. 

Dr. Simon: Stop for a moment now, again. You think your pants are open? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Has that any connection with the operation? 

Barney Hill: I'm not being operated on. My fly is open. And I think I must have left it open when I was in the mountains. 

Dr. Simon: Go on, or you can stop now and rest. You will hear nothing until I speak to you. All Right. Go on. 

Barney Hill: I am lying on my stomach, and I think, and I think of a doctor putting something in my ear. 

Dr. Simon: In your ear? 

Barney Hill: When I was a little boy I had an ear infection……. 

Dr. Simon: All right, we'll stop there and take a rest. You will hear nothing until I speak to you again. (Pause) Now, we will continue. You were speaking about how when you were a little boy the doctor put something in your ear. Go on. 

Barney Hill: Dr. Harley put something to my ear, and I looked at it, and he explained to me that you can peep into the ear and light it up with this thing, and I think of that because I am on my stomach. And the doctor is pushing something in my rectum, and it feels like what I think went into my ear, and I feel that Dr. Harley did not pain me, and I will be very careful and very still and I will cooperate, and I won't be harmed.   

Dr. Simon: Yes, go on. 

Barney Hill: I can't remember. 

Dr. Simon: You were thinking about this when you were there on the road? 

Barney Hill: I was thinking about this when I was lying on my stomach. 

Dr. Simon: Where were you lying on your stomach? 

Barney Hill: I thought I was inside something, but I did not dare open my eyes. I had been told to keep my eyes closed. 

Dr. Simon: Who told you that? 

Barney Hill: The man. 

Dr. Simon: What man? 

Barney Hill: The man that I saw through the binoculars. 

Dr. Simon: Was this one of the men in the road? 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: Well, who were these men in the road and what part did they play in all of this? 

Barney Hill: They took me and carried me up this ramp. 

Dr. Simon: They carried you up the ramp? 

Barney Hill: I know I was going up something and my feet were dragging, and this man spoke to me, and I knew I had heard his voice when he was looking at me, when I was in the road. 

Dr. Simon: This happened after you were in the road? 

Barney Hill: This happened after I was in the road in Indian Head. I thought I had driven quite a distance from Indian Head when I got lost and found myself in the woods. 

Dr. Simon: Oh, you got lost after you left Indian Head. Is that it? 

Barney Hill: I was not on Route 3, and I couldn't understand why. (*Barney assumes that he drove for many miles, yet he cannot remember driving along the highway or how he arrived on this dirt road where he was being stopped.) 

Dr. Simon: Was Indian Head before or after you saw this object? 

Barney Hill: I don't understand the question. 

Dr. Simon: Well, was it after you were at Indian Head that you saw this object? 

Barney Hill: It was at Indian Head that I saw the object standing in the sky, and it was after Indian Head. I had driven several miles. I think I have driven a lot of miles, and the road is not Route 3. It is in a heavily wooded area, but it is a road, and this is when I am flagged down. (*He is speaking of the close encounter field on Route 3 in Lincoln.) 

Dr. Simon: You were flagged down? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: These men flagged you down? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: How many were there? 

Barney Hill: I thought I saw a cluster of six men because three came to me and three did not. 

Dr. Simon: How were they dressed? 

Barney Hill: I was told at that time to close my eyes, and I closed my eyes. 

Dr. Simon: But before you closed your eyes didn't you see them? 

Barney Hill: They were in dark clothing, and they were all dressed alike. 

Dr. Simon: Were they white men? 

Barney Hill: I don't know about the color, but they did not seem that they had different faces from white men. (*This could have been a screen vision used by the ETs for mind control. His conscious recall was of men dressed in black, shiny uniforms who were "somehow not human."))

Dr. Simon: Were they in a uniform of any sort? 

Barney Hill: I thought of a Navy pea jacket just before I closed my eyes. 

Dr. Simon: Did they say anything else besides telling you to close your eyes? Did they tell you why they were stopping you? 

Barney Hill: They didn't tell me anything. They didn't say anything. 

Dr. Simon: Was there any vehicle around? 

Barney Hill: I didn't see any. 

Dr. Simon: You didn't see any vehicle? 

Barney Hill: I was told to close my eyes because I saw two eyes coming close to mine, and I felt like the eyes had pushed into my eyes. 

Dr. Simon: Was this the same eyes of the leader that you saw through the binoculars before? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Did you think it was the same man? 

Barney Hill: I didn't think of anything. I didn't think of the man in the sky in the machine that I saw. I just saw these eyes and I closed mine. And I got out of the car, and I put my left leg on the ground, and two men helped me out, and I did not walk. I felt like I was being supported and I did not go very far, I thought, before I was going up, and I was going up. My eyes were tightly closed, and I was afraid to open them. Or… that doesn't say what I mean. 

Dr. Simon: Well, try again. 

Barney Hill: I didn't want to open them. I was comfortable to keep them closed. 

Dr. Simon: Were these men holding you? 

Barney Hill: They were by my side, and I had a funny feeling because I knew they were holding me, but I couldn't feel them. 

Dr. Simon: Is this what you meant the last time when you spoke of floating? 

Barney Hill: I felt floating, suspended. I am thinking of getting out of the car and I had not thought that these men, when they helped me out of the car, I could not feel them. And I only became aware that I could not feel them when we were going up an incline. And then, I felt that I could not feel them. Yet, my arms were up in a position of being supported. My elbows were out, and I was moving. But I was not walking, and I want to peek. I want to look. I want to look.  

Dr. Simon: Yes, this won't trouble you now. You can go on now. You can tell me. 

Barney Hill: I open my eyes. 

Dr. Simon: You opened your eyes? 

Barney Hill: And I closed them. 

Dr. Simon: What did you see? 

Barney Hill: I saw a hospital ward, a hospital operating room and it was pale blue…sky blue, and I closed my eyes. (*He saw the blue light shining through the walls in the craft’s examining room.) 

Dr. Simon: Do you remember the operating room when you had your tonsils out? 

Barney Hill: It was in the Mercy Douglas Hospital, and I was in there because they thought I had appendicitis, and I stayed there for thirteen or fourteen…. thirteen days. And I used to walk down the corridor and peek in the operating room, and I thought of that. It wasn't when I had my tonsils out. 

Dr. Simon: Was that operating room blue? 

Barney Hill: No. It was bright lights. 

Dr. Simon: Bright lights? 

Barney Hill: Bright lights like a bulb, but this room was not like that. It was spotless. I thought of everything being so clean, and I closed my eyes. 

Dr. Simon: Did you feel you were going to be operated on? 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: Did you feel you were going to be attacked in any way? 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: You said your fly was open and you felt your privates were cold. 

Barney Hill: I was lying on the table and my fly was open, and I thought, “Are they putting a cup around my private parts?” And then it stopped, and I thought, “How funny.” I thought, “How funny. If I keep real quiet and real still, I won't be harmed, and it will be over. And I will just stay here and pretend that I am anywhere, and think of God, and think of Jesus, and think I am not afraid.” And I am getting off the table and I've got a big grin on my face. And I feel greatly relieved. And I am walking, and I am walking, and I am being guided and my eyes are closed. And I open my eyes and there is the car, and the lights are off, and it is not running, and Delsey is under the seat, and I reach under and touch her, and she is in a tight ball. And I sit back, and I see Betty is coming down the road, and she gets into the car, and I am grinning at her, and she is grinning back at me. And we both seem so elated, and we are really happy. And I am thinking it isn't too bad. How funny, I have no reason to fear, and we look, and I see a bright moon and I laugh and say "Well, there it goes." (chuckles) And I am happy. 

Dr. Simon: Do you mean that this object is going? 

Barney Hill: Yuh. 

Dr. Simon: It had gone. 

Barney Hill: It was going. 

Dr. Simon: Going…Did you still see it? 

Barney Hill: It was a bright huge ball……orange. It was a beautiful bright ball. And it was going, and it was gone, and we were in darkness. And I put on the lights of the car and looked down the road, and I saw there is a bend in the road. And we began driving and I could see a slight incline, and then, I drove and came back to Route 3 because I was on cement road. And I thought, "Oh boy, if I could only find a restaurant and get a cup of coffee. And Betty…and I feel…, I feel real hilarious…..a feeling of well being.  I feel great relief. (*The Hills are experiencing mind control. The entities have taken control of their thoughts and are controlling their emotional reactions. This is common in alien abduction cases.) 

Dr. Simon: What were you relieved about? 

Barney Hill: I am relieved….. I feel that I have been in a harrowing situation and there was nothing damaging or harmful about it, and I feel greatly relieved. 

Dr. Simon: And the flying object is gone? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: And it didn't come back? 

Barney Hill: Betty is giggling, and she said, "Do you believe in flying saucers now?"  And I said, Oh Betty, don’t be ridiculous. Of course I don't."  And we heard a beeping, the car buzzed, and I kept silent. 

Dr. Simon: You heard a beeping? 

Barney Hill: It was a beeping, beep, beep, beep (Quicken pace) beep, beep, beep, beep. 

Dr. Simon: Was your car radio on? 

Barney Hill: No, my radio was not on. It was so late, and I did not think I could get a station, so when I left Canada, I cut my radio off. I played my radio in Quebec because I thought it was funny, humorous to get the Canadian stations, and every word was spoken in French, and the music sounded different to my ears. When I left Montreal I became determined to drive home and I cut my radio off. I don't play my radio when I'm driving. 

Dr. Simon: Well now, these beeps…..you heard these beeps again. Do they sound like some of the beeps you get on a radio where you have code signals, or what did they sound like? 

Barney Hill: Beep, beep, beep. They sound like beeps. That's all. They sound like beeps. 

Dr. Simon: Yes, well what did you do? What did you think about?  

Barney Hill: I thought it was strange. The beep, beep, be, beep……, and on the first beep, I touched the steering wheel with my fingertips because I thought I had felt a vibration. When I heard the beep and as it continued, Betty looked to the back, I slowed the car down and I stopped, and I said, "Betty is there something shifting in the car?"  

Dr. Simon: Did she say anything about hearing the beeps? 

Barney Hill: She said, “What is that noise?!" 

Dr Simon: All right. 

Barney Hill: And we looked in the back, and Delsey had climbed up on the back seat and her ears were propped up, and the beep, beep, beep…..And we said, "Oh oh, do you think that thing is still around?" I called it a thing. Betty called it a flying saucer and we had no answer, so we both just thought, “How strange.” And I thought, “That's very peculiar. I wonder if I can make the car do that.” So, I drove the car fast and then would decelerate rapidly, and I would swerve over to the left of the highway, and back to the right, and I came to a complete stop and accelerated rapidly, but I could not seem to get that sound. And we drove down the highway and we saw the route for the express way…. seventeen miles to Concord. And I drove to Concord and down Route 4. 

Dr. Simon: Did the beeping follow you there? 

Barney Hill: No, I did not hear any beeps. 

Dr. Simon: After you got on the concrete road……..Is that it? 

Barney Hill: No, I did not hear any beeps for quite a distance before I reached the main superhighway, because Route 3 was also concrete, where I heard the beeping. 

Dr. Simon: I see. 

Barney Hill: And I heard the beeping two times. I heard the beeping when I got into the car or returned to the car at Indian Head and started down the highway. I heard this series of beeps, and I thought, "What is that Betty?" and we did not hear it anymore. 

Dr Simon: Then she heard it too? 

Barney Hill: She heard it too. And we did not hear it again until we had been in the woods and had returned to Route 3, and she asked me did I believe in flying saucers. And I did not want to say what I really believed. (*This information is documented in Betty’s letter to NICAP dated 9-26-1961 and in the Hills’ sighting report to Pease Air Force Base on September 21, 1961. It was part of their conscious recall. You will find them on my website.) 

Dr. Simon: What did you really believe? 

Barney Hill: I believed that we had seen and been a part of something different than anything I had ever seen before. 

Dr. Simon: Do you mean also this experience with these men in this operating room? 

Barney Hill: Yes. And I…….. (Dr. Simon interrupts Barney.) 

Dr. Simon: Did you feel you had been kidnapped? 

Barney Hill: I didn't use that word. I can only use that word intellectually. I did not feel that I had been kidnapped. But I think of kidnapping when you are being harmed. 

Dr. Simon: And you weren't harmed. 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: Do you have any idea why this was done? 

Barney Hill: I was anxious to get home and look at my private parts. 

Dr. Simon: You wanted to see your private parts. Were you afraid they had done something to them? 

Barney Hill: Well, I wanted to see them. I thought, "This is proof that something happened to me.”  And I was unsure and would waver and think, "It can't be."  But then I would think, “But it did."  And I would think, “When I get home and look at my private parts, I will touch whatever touched me and see if there is a mark.” This is what I thought. 

Dr Simon: (Pause) All Right. Go on. 

Barney Hill: I drove home, and I walked into the house, and I was too tired to bring in my luggage, and Betty got out of the car, and she took Delsey, and she let Delsey relieve herself on the grass and brought her in. And I went into the bathroom and looked at my private parts and saw nothing wrong with them. And I went into the bedroom, and I kept thinking that something is around me. I went to the window, and I looked up into the morning sky, and I went to the back door and opened it and looked up into the sky. And I thought, "Something is around somewhere." And Betty and I then retired, talking, "Isn't that very strange…whatever happened." And I could not remember anything that happened except that I was at Indian Head. Then, I went to bed. And the next day (*Actually this was on the same day, 9-20-1961.) we decided we would not ever tell anyone, and we would only talk about it to each other. And I said, "But Betty will you draw a picture of what you think you saw, and I will."  And we drew pictures, and they were identical, and Betty called her sister and told her sister. 

Dr. Simon: What was the condition of your car? 

Barney Hill: Betty went out of the house. She came away from the telephone and she said, "Where is the compass? Where is the compass?"  And when Betty does that to me, I immediately get angry and I said, "I don't know what you're talking about Betty." And she said, "Compass, Compass, where's the compass?"  And I said, "In the drawer where it always is." And she got it, and I was irritated because, when she is excited like that, she didn't think to open the drawer and find it. And she went out of the house, and I went to the bedroom window, which is the front window of the house…apartment, and looked at her. And she was running around the car, and I thought, "This thing is getting the best of Betty." And "We'd better forget this as quickly as possible and stop remembering it."  

And she stormed into the house and said, "Barney, come here! Come here quick!"  And I went out and I looked at the compass when she placed it by the car and I said, "Oh, this is ridiculous Betty. After all, the car is metal, and any metal will cause a compass to react this way."  And she said, "But look at what it does." And "Look at the spots on my car." And I looked and there were large spots… shiny spots on the trunk of the car. And I thought, "Well what caused that?" And I started to try to wipe one off and she said, "Don't touch it." And I said, "How can you not know if it isn't anything?"  And I put the compass close to it and the compass would spin and spin, and I could move the compass as few inches to a spot on trunk that did not have a spot and the compass would drop down, and I could not understand this. And I knew I did not know anything about compasses, and I told Betty, "After all, the compass is a cheap compass and there's nothing to get alarmed about." 

Dr. Simon: "What gave her the idea of using a compass? 

Barney Hill: I did not know at that time. 

Dr. Simon: Well, what did you find out? 

Barney Hill: She told me later that, while she was talking to her sister, her sister had suggested that she get a compass and check and see if the car was magnetized. When we would place the compass anywhere except on those spots, it would just flop down. (*My mother, Janet Miller, called our neighbor, a physicist. He told her to ask Betty to take the compass to her vehicle to see how the compass would react. He apparently knew that UFOs often leave magnetic fields on surfaces they are near.) 

Dr Simon: You say these were shiny spots. What do you mean by that? Were there changes in the color of your car, or just dust removed, or what? 

Barney Hill: Highly polished. 

Dr. Simon: As if the car had been highly polished? 

Barney Hill: Yes, in those spots. 

Dr. Simon: How big were they? 

Barney Hill: About the size of half dollars…. silver dollars. 

Dr. Simon: Did you try to remove them? Or did you try to wipe the rest of the car off? 

Barney Hill: I never bothered with the spots. 

Dr. Simon: Was the rest of the car dusty, I suppose? 

Barney Hill: Yes, it was. 

Dr. Simon: And you didn't try to polish it off to see if you could get rid of the spots? 

Barney Hill: There had been a rain and where the rain had washed some of the dust off, the shiny spots were still there, and I didn't try to wipe them off. 

Dr. Simon: Could these spots have been caused by the raindrops taking the dust off? 

Barney Hill: No! The spots were shiny and perfect circles. 

Dr. Simon: Well, what did you do, just leave the spots? 

Barney Hill: I did. 

Dr. Simon: Well, did you wash or polish your car within a reasonable time afterwards? 

Barney Hill: That was Betty's car, and she washes her car. I suppose she did. I didn't pay any more attention. 

Dr. Simon: You don't know. About how long did those spots stay then? 

Barney Hill: I shut them out. I don't know. I just stopped thinking about them. 

Dr. Simon: Oh, I see. You don't know when they… They did disappear didn't they? 

Barney Hill: Yes, they are gone. 

Dr. Simon: All right. We'll stop with this now. Now you'll no longer think about everything we've talked about today until I ask you to recall it, or anything else. It will not trouble you at all. The eyes will not trouble you. You won't even think about them.

Everything is comfortable. Everything is relaxed. There is no need for anxiety and nothing to worry about. Is that clear? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Now you're comfortable aren't you? 

Barney Hill: Yes, I am. 

Dr. Simon: And relaxed? You are not worried. You will not worry. Everything will be quite all right, and you and Betty will come back a week from today, again, just as you did today. Do you feel all right now? 

Barney Hill: Yes I do. 

Dr. Simon: Yes, you are very comfortable. You will not worry about it. It will not trouble you at all. It's not going to affect your mind and it’s an experience that we'll talk about more, and we'll get it all cleared up. So, you will have no fear… no anxiety. You will not think about this. This will not come to you… anything that we've talked about in these sessions. You're sure of that now. You will not think about it, and it will not trouble you.  You'll be comfortable and relaxed, no pains, no aches, no anxiety. You'll be all right. 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: And you may wake now. 

Dr. Simon makes the following note: The causes with (unintelligible) were because of technical difficulties where there seemed to be some over carriage into the tapes of a previous recording. It was necessary to stop to try to make some adjustments which may possibly impair the quality of the tape, at certain points, on the right channel. The left channel appeared to record quite well. I did the first part on the right channel. Mrs. Hill was induced prior to …(Tape ends).

Dr. Simon interviews Betty Hill under hypnosis for the first time. Betty recalls her trip through Montreal and through Canada to the White Mountains. Dr. Simon questions her about several of Barney's observations to check for accuracy. She describes the UFO and the first part of her abduction.  She writhes in pain and weeps profusely when a needle is inserted into her navel.

Dr. Simon: At 8:00 A.M., Mr. and Mrs. Barney Hill are expected for the third session under hypnosis. Mr. Hill will be reinforced, and then, the interview will be done with Mrs. Hill much as was done with Mr. Hill.

Hypnosis session begins:

Now, as I said before you understand we are going to go over all of your experiences, particularly with respect to this experience in September 1961, under hypnosis; and that I am recording it fully, and that the recording is mine.  Do you understand that?

Betty Hill: Um-huh. Can we take tapes from you?

Dr. Simon: Oh, what we do in the future is just…well; we'll decide……nothing will ever be done with this without your approval and understanding.  If there is some reason that you will want copies of this, remember this will have to be my judgment, because this is not just a recording of events, but is a treatment. If I feel that parts of this are best not brought out, then …. You’ll have to trust me on that.  You understand?

Betty Hill: Yes.

Dr. Simon: Other than that, as for informational quality, I'll be glad to see that you have it. So, you understand all of this?

Betty Hill: Yes.

Dr. Simon: All right. So, trance Betty. You are in a deep, deep sleep, deep asleep, fully relaxed, far asleep, very comfortable, fully relaxed. Deep asleep. When I touch the top of your head your left arm will become rigid as a bar of steel. Rigid as a bar of steel. It cannot be bent or relaxed. Rigid. And your sleep becomes deeper and deeper and deeper. When I stroke the top of your hand, you will lose all sensation, and you will not feel this pin that I'm sticking in there.  Now your sensation is normal. Your arm is relaxed, and your sleep is deeper and deeper and deeper. Deeply relaxed……Far asleep. Far asleep. In a deep, deep sleep. Now we're going to go back.  Go back to your vacation in September of 1961. You come from Niagara Falls to Montreal. You will now remember what you just said and will recall everything of all of your experiences, all of your memories, all of your feelings. You will give me all of this in full detail. Now you're coming from Niagara Falls to Montreal.  You are on your way home from on your vacation.  Now tell me all that you experienced……All that you felt…. You and your husband.

Betty Hill: We are driving along, and the streets were wide. The sun was shining. There were quite a few people on the streets.

Dr. Simon: Where was this?

Betty Hill: Montreal. And I was looking at the houses and the stores, in the windows, and we had to slow down in front of a bank and guards came. Men in uniforms came running out and they seemed to be chasing someone. And we turned the car radio on and found out that the bank had just been robbed. And we kept driving. We got lost. We stopped at a gas station to get directions, and the attendant spoke French and couldn't understand us, and he thought we wanted the ladies’ room.  So, we went to another garage, and they told us how to get back into the center of Montreal. And we rode down St. Catherine street, and I saw a mink coat in the window for $1, 895. Then, we decided to find a hotel but then we didn't know if they would allow Delsey to be in a motel. So then, we thought we would look for a motel outside of Montreal somewhere. And we got lost again and Barney stopped again, and a man told him how to go, but I guess we took the wrong turn because we went over a bridge and found ourselves outside of Montreal.  And we kept going. We talked about turning around and going back because we hadn't done any sight seeing in Montreal, but we kept driving, thinking we would get a motel first.  And as we drove, the roads got narrower and it was getting later, and I kept seeing a sign written in French and I thought the sign said potato fritters, and so we came to a little drive-in restaurant. And the woman in this little drive-in restaurant came out and started speaking to me in French and I said I didn't understand Canadian French.  And she kept saying that she was sure that I was French, but I'm not.  And then I found out that it wasn't potato fritters; it was potato chips.  So, we had the potato chips and coffee, and I don't remember if I had a hot dog or a hamburger or one of each. But we took the food out to a table beside the drive-in and ate out there, and we took Delsey out of the car and tied her to the leg of the table, while we ate.    

Dr. Simon: This is your dog Delsey?

Betty Hill: Yes.

Dr. Simon: How did she get that name?

Betty Hill: Delsey? Well, her registered name is Schultz, and I didn't like it.  I mean, it’s a cold sounding name and it also sounds like you're calling for a bear instead of a dog.  And we just…, I just started taking Schultze and putting other sounds……And when I said, “Delsey,” she responded.  So, it’s been Delsey ever since. 

Dr. Simon: All right. Go on. This is an aside. You had Delsey tied to the leg of the table.

Betty Hill: Yes. The people in the drive-in talked to us for a few minutes. They were quite friendly. And then we got into the car, and we started driving back to New Hampshire. I mean, we kept thinking we were going to stop at a motel. We kept looking for a motel to stop at, but we didn't……or somehow, we just didn't see one, or we passed it before we noticed it, or something.  We kept driving and driving. It was getting later, and it began to get dark.

Dr. Simon: Yes

Betty Hill: We got into……. It was dark and we got into this town and stopped to eat, and oh…, the restaurant was all right. It wasn't too good.  The waitress could only seem to speak a little English, and then, we left there. And I think we got off of the main road somehow because we went to the Customs, and stopped at the Customs, and he asked us how……..Well, he said that they didn't get many tourists at this Customs because it was out of the way. Most people went to a better traveled highway, and I don't know how we made the mistake and got onto this road, but Barney got out and he looked through the trunk of the car.  We had a lot of odds and ends, and then he said we could go. 

Dr. Simon: Didn't you spend the night anywhere?

Betty Hill: Coming home from Montreal? No.

Dr. Simon: Or was it coming into Montreal?

Betty Hill: We stayed the night before we got into Montreal down at this motel by the Thousand Islands. We stayed at this motel that night and left there in the morning and went into Montreal.

Dr. Simon: I see. Well now, we are back at the Customs.

Betty Hill: All right.

Dr. Simon: Unless there is anything else you can think of.

Betty Hill: No. Well, then he told us that he checked the car and said everything was all right, and we could go along.

Dr. Simon: This was the Canadian Customs?

Betty Hill: On the American/Canadian border.

Dr. Simon: Did you have any concerns at the Customs about anything?

Betty Hill: No. Except the trunk of the car was so untidy, and somewhere we heard a weather report, and this is what decided us to go back to Portsmouth, rather than stay overnight.  And this was a hurricane (that) was headed towards New England and they didn't know if it would go out to sea, or not.  So, this is when we decided we should come straight home, instead of staying over night in Montreal.  Then we got into the mountains, and we were riding. Oh, just as we came into New Hampshire we stopped to get gas and we paid the man with the last of the Canadian money we had.  That was just after the Customs.  Then we came into Colebrook and there was some kind of……. I don't know……We went by the restaurant and there was some kind of construction……the road………There was something that distracted our attention.  And we turned around and went back and we had a lunch.

Dr. Simon: What time of the day was this?

Betty Hill: It was……there was a clock above the door of the ladies’ room, and it was 10:00 o'clock, and we finished eating and left………And we went by the town of Lancaster, and we were riding along and there was a truck that passed us, and there must have been something dragging on the ground under the truck because there were all of these sparks flying out from under it.  And it was sort of startling.  I thought the truck might catch on fire and I wondered if the driver knew about it.  And we kept driving and looking around.  The moon was bright and not quite full, but very bright and alive.  And there was a star down below the moon, on the lower left-hand side of the moon, and then right after we left Lancaster, I noticed that there was a bigger star up over this one.  And it hadn't been there, and I showed Barney, and we kept watching it and it seemed to be getting brighter and bigger looking. (She told NICAP Investigator, Walter Webb, on 10/20/61, at first glance it appeared to be a falling star, only it fell upward. See NICAP report, A Dramatic UFO Encounter in the White Mountains, NH Sept. 19-20, 1961.)  And we watched it for quite a while and I was puzzled about it…., also curious.  And while I was watching it Delsey was getting somewhat restless, and then we went by a mountain that obstructed the view, and then I could see this star again, I thought it had moved, but I wasn't quite sure, so I kept watching it.  Then, it seemed as if it did move.  And Delsey was restless, so I told Barney that I thought we should let Delsey out, and it would give us a chance to look at this star through the binoculars.  And so, we drove along, and we came to a parking space off the highway; one that had been built there, and I guess it was so people could drive off to look at the view and there were woods all around.  And there were a couple of trash barrels and Barney said we should look out for bears.  And he was……. this was his idea. (*This is when Barney retrieves the gun from the trunk of the car.) So, I got out of the car first and put Delsey on her leash and started to walk her. And then I noticed that the star was definitely moving so, I went back to the car and got out the binoculars. And Barney got out then and came around and took Delsey. And I was looking through the binoculars at the object and Barney was saying it was a satellite. But it wasn't. It was moving fast, but it went in front of the moon, and I saw it.  I saw it travel across the whole face of the moon, and it was odd shaped, and it was flashing all different colored lights.

Dr. Simon: How far away would you say it was?

Betty Hill: It looked as though it was quite close to the moon.

Dr. Simon: Close to the moon?

Betty Hill: Yes. It looked……….at that time it wasn't close to us, but I could see it outlined in front of the moon, and there were like searchlights rotating around.  Not around it but…………. (*Pease Air Force Base initially assumed that Betty had observed an advertising searchlight.)

Dr. Simon: Like these lights you see on top of police cars?

Betty Hill: No.  You know what a searchlight looks like?  And how it's in a pencil line of light and it swings around.  They were like that.

Dr. Simon: You mean you could see these long beams of ……….

Betty Hill: Of light.  They were different colors.

Dr. Simon: Were they usual colors that you know?

Betty Hill: Yuh, they were bright colors like a bright orange light, almost a reddish beam.  And there was like a blue, well you said, “Like a light on a police cruiser.”  You know it was something like that because, when a cruiser light turns around, somehow and it flashes.  Well, I guess that even though they seemed to come out into a ray thing, somehow, they were… all of these different kinds of lights seemed to flash, flash, flash. 

Dr. Simon: There were other colors of red, amber, and green?

Betty Hill: And like a blue.  And they were just a flash, flash, flash of different colors.  And I had never seen anything like it before, and it was moving quite fast.  And although I had never seen a satellite, I always thought of a satellite as traveling like a shooting star……. maybe not quite as fast.  But this wasn’t traveling that fast.  When I saw it go in front of the moon, I was sort of fascinated and I kept watching.  But then I tried to get Barney to look. I wanted him to see it before it got beyond the face of the moon, but he just kept saying, "Oh, it's a satellite." And so, after that, we got ……… (Dr. Simon talks over Betty)

Dr. Simon: By satellite do you mean one of those things we keep putting up into the air?

Betty Hill: Yes.

Dr. Simon: Like the Telstar and things like that?

Betty Hill: Yes. And he said it was just a satellite, and he was over by the car, and by the time he got back, it had gone from in front of the moon, but he did look at it.  And he looked at it for a few minutes or a few seconds and he gave the binoculars back to me.

Dr. Simon: You said it had an odd shape.  How would you describe the shape? Was it round or shaped like anything you know like a plane or……?

Betty Hill: No, not like a plane.  It was sort of ………. All I could think of was uh, uh…like a cigar.

Dr. Simon: Like a cigar?

Betty Hill: Yes, it was long, but there weren't any wings, and it was going sideways. You know, long, like a cigar?  It was going from the left to the right, and it was just like a cigar, holding a cigar up in front of the moon with all these lights flashing around it.  So, then Barney looked at it, and I took the binoculars and looked again, and gave them back to him.  And then I went over and put Delsey in the car and got in the car myself and shut the door, and then, Barney came over and put…, (*Betty stops herself.  She is editing out the fact that Barney put the gun on the floor of the car.), got in the car.  And he said, “They've seen us and they're coming this way.”  And I laughed and asked him if he had watched Twilight Zone recently on TV. And he didn't say anything. (*The Hills did not watch the Twilight Zone.)

Dr. Simon: Why did you mention Twilight Zone?

Betty Hill: Because the idea was fantastic.

Dr. Simon: Had there been anything like this on Twilight Zone?

Betty Hill: I don't know.  I never saw Twilight Zone, but I had heard people talk about this program.  And I was under the impression that it was sort of a way out type of thing. 

Dr. Simon: I see.

Betty Hill: And when he said that they had seen us and that they were swinging around and coming in our direction, I thought that his imagination was being overactive.

Dr. Simon: Did he have the binoculars then?

Betty Hill: I left him standing at the edge of this parking area looking at this object when I took Delsey, and she and I got in the car.  And I sat down and waited for him to finish looking, and this is when he came back and said that it had turned around and was coming towards us.

Dr. Simon: Did you look to see if it was doing that?

Betty Hill: Not at that moment.  I thought that this was sort of…. Well, I didn't know……..Barney kept saying that it was heading towards us.  So, I thought, “Well, I don't know what gave him this idea.”  But I was becoming a little curious about why he thought so.  So, I picked up the binoculars and at first, I couldn't find it…, couldn't find this object.  But then, I did see it and I could see that it was getting close to us.  And this was coming in and I would…, it was still far, far away, and even when it was first coming in it looked like a star.  It was a solid light type of thing.  And then, I would take the binoculars down and look at it and it was just like a star coming in closer.  But then when I looked at it though the binoculars and it would of course appear much bigger, but it was flying in a very odd way.  And this was what……I was all excited. 

Dr. Simon: What do you mean by odd way?

Betty Hill: Well, you know how an airplane flies along in a straight line?

Dr. Simon: Yes.

Betty Hill: It wasn't flying like that.  It was turning.  It was rotating. And it would rotate…. It would go along and fly in a straight line for a short…, just a short distance…, and then, it would tip over on its side and go up. 

Dr. Simon: Well now, let's see.  It was shaped like a cigar you say.  It flew in a straight line.  Did it fly as if it were a cigar going along………. like an arrow?

Betty Hill: That’s the way it looked when it was out……… (Dr. Simon interrupts Betty.)

Dr. Simon: And when it tipped over what did it do?  How did it tip?

Betty Hill: Well, all right.  You take a cigar and you lay it flat on the desk.  Now you stand the cigar up on one end, going straight up and down.  This is what this did.  And in the meanwhile, it gave the appearance of spinning all of the time this was happening.  And then it would……. (Dr. Simon interrupts Betty.)

Dr. Simon: Spinning on the long axis?

Betty Hill: Uh, Yes, it would go along straight, and then it would suddenly go up straight, and it would flatten out horizontally, and then it would drop down straight.  This seemed to be the overall pattern.  It wasn't done in an exactly precise way.  It would sort of jerk.  It would jerk up and then sort of flatten out, and so, it was sort of a ………it wasn't smoothly done. And as they got closer, they seemed to be more of this jumping back and forth in the sky. And it followed us for a long time, and I was………. Barney was driving, and I was watching this almost completely. And the way it was flying, I thought it was maybe the vibrations of the car that was causing it to look this way through the binoculars.  And so…………

Dr. Simon: You mean this jumping effect?

Betty Hill: Yes.  I thought maybe the vibration of the car was giving this effect to the binoculars.  And so, I would keep asking Barney to stop the car and look at it, and he would stop.  And he would say, well, he couldn't see it flying this way.  And I could, and so then, I would look at other objects like streetlights to see how they would………. uh, if a streetlight would give this appearance. And it wouldn't and I kept trying to figure out……. I kept saying that nothing flies like this.  So, it’s something that I'm doing that is giving the idea that it's flying like this. And everything else that I look at is all right.  It doesn't look like that.  It was just this one object, and we kept starting and stopping, and looking at it and………. (Tape ends)

Dr. Simon: All right Betty.  Continue now, where we left off.

Betty Hill: We came by the tramway on Cannon Mountain and there's a lighted area on the top that's been up there, and I think that the lights might have been from the restaurant, and as I was watching, the lights went out.  And I looked at my watch and it was, I think, ten minutes past eleven.  And I thought if anybody was up there, they would be able to get a good look at this object. Because it went right behind the restaurant, and then there is a lookout tower in that area, and when I was watching this to see what this object would do, I didn’t see it.  I don't know if it went down in the valley between the two mountains or if it turned its lights off.  This puzzled me because I kept looking for it and I thought,"Well, maybe they're going away."  They aren't interested in us. But then when we came out by the Old Man of the Mountain there it was.  It looked as though it was bouncing along the top of the mountain, the ridge.  And it would go down a little bit on the other side and I would lose sight of it, and I kept wondering why they were following us.  And I figured that………I was wondering if they were as curious about me as I was about them.

Dr. Simon: You keep speaking of them…. Did you?

Betty Hill: Well, I figured there must be somebody inside the object.  You know, someone was directing its flight, and so whoever was inside……. I was very curious, and I had a feeling of……. you know that, in a way, it was sort of intriguing. I didn't know what was going to happen, but I can't say………  I wasn't afraid.  I was just curious, and I just had a feeling that something is going to happen, and I don’t know what it is. But and I hope I won't be too afraid when it does happen, but I was just waiting for something to happen. So, we kept riding along and we stopped in one place and there were too many trees.  We lost sight of it there. 

When we got to the Flume, Barney drove in on the parking area on the right-hand side, and we stopped there and tried to get a really good look at it.  But there were too many trees there, too.  But we would go along and there would be areas where there would be a fairly clear view.  And then, we went past the Flume, somewhere between the Flume and Indian Head or…….it was just beyond the Flume or just beyond Indian Head.  There was a motel, and it was like cabins, these small neat looking cabins.  The sign itself wasn't lighted, but there was one cabin on the end that had a light on, and there was a man standing in the door.  And I saw this, and I thought, "If I want to I can get out of this whole situation right now.  All we've got to do is drive in here and this object will go away, and that will be the end of it." I mean this is an escape from it if I want this, and I was thinking this, and I didn't say anything to Barney. I just kept………. I didn't say anything.  I just thought, “I don't know what is going to happen, but I'm ready for it.”  And Barney was sort of irritating me because he wants to……. His whole attitude was that I was trying to wish something upon him.  I got the impression that he was trying to deny what was actually happening…………that he just didn't want to know that it was there, even though he would stop and look at it.  I don't think he put too much………. He didn't seem to have any realization of what was going on. 

And so then, it was… now, it was fairly close, and I could see that it wasn't spinning.  When it was coming in it was spinning because I could see that there were sort of like lights on one side, and this gave it a blinking, twinkling effect.  But then, all of a sudden, it stopped doing this and I could see that it must have been………. I just got the idea that there were lights only on one side. And then, all of a sudden, the object shot ahead of us and swung around in front of the car.  I was watching this when it did it.  And it was up on my side in the windshield right directly in front of me, and I looked at it through the binoculars, and I could see a double row of windows.  And then, as I was watching it, I was thinking, "Well this end has got the windows and the back of it must be dark, and this is why it twinkles, and while I'm sitting there amazed by all of this……, all of a sudden one side, on the left hand side, a red light came out.  And then, on the right-hand side, this light showed.

Dr. Simon: You say left-and right-hand side……. how was it?

Betty Hill: I was facing the object.

Dr. Simon: Was it broad side to you?

Betty Hill: It was.  Now all you could see was the row of the windows.

Dr. Simon: The row of the windows.

Betty Hill: Yes, and then on my…I was facing it, so on my left-hand side there was a light, and then, on the on the right…………….

Dr. Simon: You were looking through the windshield?

Betty Hill: I was looking through the windshield up at it.

Dr. Simon: How far away would you say it was?

Betty Hill: Oh, I couldn't estimate.  You couldn't see it too clearly without the binoculars, (the window dividers), but it was a fairly large object. (*On 9/21/61, Barney reported to Pease Air Force Base that the object was hundreds of feet above the automobile.  Then, on 10/20/61, the Hills told NICAP Investigator, Walter Webb, that it was 8-10 stories above the ground. One can surmise that it descended toward the Hills’ vehicle south of Indian Head and approached within 8-10 stories when Barney stopped the car.)

Dr. Simon: Well, you couldn't see windows without the binoculars? Was that it?

Betty Hill: The uh, I didn't…………I couldn't see the division between the windows without the binoculars.  I could see the band of white. And when I saw the second red light I kept telling Barney to stop……."Stop the car Barney and look at it."  And he kept saying, "Well why? It's nothing.  It will go away."  (*Barney is refusing to cooperate with Betty.) And I kept saying, "You've got to stop Barney!  You've got to stop!  You've never seen anything like this in your whole life.  It's amazing!" And so, he said, Oh, he's going to humor me then. “Oh, all right, give me the binoculars.” And he looked at it and I kept saying, "Do you see it?  Do you see it?'  And he kept saying, "Oh its just some plane or something."  And I am saying, "Okay, it’s a plane.  Did you ever see a plane with two red lights?  I always thought planes had one red and one green light."  And he kept looking at it, and then, he'd give the binoculars back to me, and then I'd watch it, and then he kept saying well, he couldn't see very well.  So, he opened the car door…………No, first he put down the window of his car door and tried to stick his head out and look up over the roof of the car at it, but the motor of the car was running, and he said he was going to………. Well, he got out. He opened the car door and he jumped out………..He put his foot out on the highway and the other one was inside the car, and he was standing, you know, with the car door open, but he was leaning on the body of the car and he kept looking at it, and then, he didn't say anything.  He just stepped outside, and he kept going away from the car. And then I thought, "This isn't a very bright spot for us to have stopped the car because we're right on the main highway and we're right directly in the middle of the highway. I mean we're not on the right side or the left side, we're right directly in the middle, (straddling the center line) and there should be traffic on this highway.  So, I thought, “While he's out getting a good look at this, I'll watch in case any cars are coming in either direction.  I'll have to get the car out of the middle of the street." So, I'd look out the back window and out the front window, and it seems that I sat there…and I kept waiting and waiting and Barney didn't come back.  And I was sitting there waiting and I looked ……. It was dark there. There weren't any streetlights or anything, and I noticed that when I looked out, he was quite a distance from the car.  And he was still going away from the car, so I leaned over on the front seat, and I was saying, "Barney, come back here! Barney, you damn fool; get back here! (Crying plea) Ugh! Come back!" (Crying profusely now) If the damn fool out there doesn't come back, I'm going out after him. (Sobbing) And I'm hollering, "Barney, Barney, Barney get back here you damn fool.  What's wrong with you?” 

And I start to slide across……I was going to get out on his side of the car because that door was still open a little bit, and I started to slide across the seat because I was going to go out and get him. And just as I started to slide across the seat and I got the door most of the way open, he came. He was running like mad down the street and he…………When I saw him coming I sat up, and it was lucky I did, because he threw the binoculars in the car and they landed on the seat beside me, and he was hysterical. He was…………I don't know if he was laughing or crying, but he said that they were going to capture us.  We had to get the hell out of there. They were going to capture us. And because the car motor was running, he put the car into first and he stepped on the gas, and we started to take off very rapidly. So, he kept saying to me, “Look out. Look out at them. They’re right overhead.  They are right directly over our car.”  And so, I did want to see them again. I mean I was sort of afraid, but I wasn't that afraid.  So, we were moving. We were going quite fast then, so I wound down ………. I turned down the window on my side of the car, and I tried to put my body out through the window, and I looked up…………and I looked up, and I couldn't see a thing.  And I kept looking and looking and looking up, and I couldn't see them, and I couldn't see any light.  I couldn't see anything.  I couldn't even see the sky. I couldn't see anything.  So, I told Barney, I said, "I don’t see them. They aren't there. I don't see anything.  Everything is all black. I don't see them." (*Betty realized that she was observing the underside of the craft.) And so then, I pulled my head in, and I wound up the window of the car, and I thought, “Well, maybe they're out the back. I looked out the back window and I didn't see anything and then, all of a sudden, there was this beep, beep, beep, beep…………Beep, beep, beep, beep………noise.  And Barney said, "What's that? What's that noise?"  And I said, "I don't know. It sounds like……. all I can think of is some kind of electrical signal.  Somebody's… you know………its beep, beep, beep, beep……….and then I thought, "Oh darn, why didn't I learn the Morse code.", because maybe this is the Morse code, and I don't know it.  And I thought, “Well, maybe it's electrical.  It’s a shock, so I put my hand on the metal of the car, and I kept feeling and feeling, and I didn't feel any shock………No electric shock.  The whole car was vibrating. You know? It kept vibrating.

Dr. Simon: Um hum.

Betty Hill: And well, that's funny, there was no………. well, I don't know.  There was a beeping and there wasn't any electrical shock.  What happened next? And we were riding along, and I keep waiting for Barney to tell me about what he did see on the highway.

Dr. Simon: How long would you say he was away from you when he was on the highway? Actually, how long was it?

Betty Hill: Oh………. It seemed like a long time.

Dr. Simon: Well, how long was it?

Betty Hill: I don't know………. I would say………. For some reason I don't know why I would say four or five minutes.

Dr. Simon: Four or five minutes?

Betty Hill: Yuh. I don't remember looking at my watch.  Well, it was dark anyway. I heard the beeping sound.

Dr. Simon: Did you see this object anymore?

Betty Hill: I kept trying to see it. Every once in a while, I'd look out the window for it, but……………. (Long pause) My mind is a blank, but I can almost remember.

Dr. Simon: Yes, you can.

Betty Hill: I can't get beyond that beeping.

Dr. Simon: You can. It's all right now. You can get beyond it.

Betty Hill: (Weeping)

Dr. Simon: Yes. Go on. It's all right. You're all right.  You needn't be too upset. 

Betty Hill: We're driving along.  I don't know where we are.  I don't even know how we got here.  We've been driving……. I don't even know how long…….and we aren't even talking.  And I just keep thinking that something is going to happen. And I'm not really too afraid. Because right now……at that time I didn't feel afraid.  (Weeps) 

Dr. Simon: Why are you crying if you're not afraid?

Betty Hill: I am afraid now, but I don't……. I was afraid when I saw the men in the road. (Weeps profusely)

Dr. Simon: The men in the road?

Betty Hill: (Cries) I've never been so afraid in my life. 

Dr. Simon: Tell me about the men in the road.

Betty Hill: (Weeps profusely)

Dr. Simon: It's all right now.  You're safe here.  Tell me about the men in the road.

Betty Hill: We're driving along and we're on a tarred road, and all of a sudden, without any warning or any reason or rhyme or anything, Barney made a ……(unintelligible) the brakes.  I think they squealed when he stopped so suddenly. He made a sharp left hand turn on the highway and we went onto this narrow road. And I was wondering what he was doing down here but he wasn't saying anything, and I wasn't.  I figured well, maybe we're lost, but so what.  We'll come out somewhere.  And we're going along and there was a sharp curve in the road and as we went around the curve there were trees.  There were a lot of tall, tall trees on my side. I don't know about Barney's side of the road. 

There were these men standing in the highway. And I wasn't too afraid when I saw them.  They were standing there, and I thought well, you know………. There was several. Oh, I don't know……And you couldn't get a good look at them.  And I thought, “Well are they in a car and the car is broken down? Or, what are they doing there?”  And Barney, of course had to stop, and then he stopped the car and these men started to come up to the car. They separated. They came up in two groups. And when they started to do that, I got really scared. The motor died…the car stalled and when they started coming up Barney tried to start the car. He tried to start it, and do you know how a motor will just turn over and turn over? It won't fire.  (Cries) He thinks that's them again.

Dr. Simon: He did what?

Betty Hill: (Terrified weeping) He tried to start the car and it won't start and the men are coming towards us, and I think I can get away from them.  If I can get the car door open, I can run in the woods and hide. And I'm thinking it and I just put my hand on the car door to open it and men come up, and they open it for me.  And they open the car door and they're not very big men.  And there are one, two three…. next to me and then this. He took me out.

Dr Simon: I didn't hear that.

Betty Hill: Two men just, at the car door and then there's one, two, three men and then there's one, two more behind them and one man puts his hand out………. (pause)

Dr. Simon: Go on.

Betty Hill: I don't know what happened.

Dr. Simon: You can remember everything now. What did these men look like? Could you see their faces?

Betty Hill: No.

Dr. Simon: How were they dressed?

Betty Hill: Alike somehow or other.

Dr. Simon: Did they have on some kind of uniform or were they in ordinary clothes?

Betty Hill: (Unintelligible) ………. uniform.

Dr. Simon: Uniforms. Does it resemble any uniform that you know?

Betty Hill: I couldn't see.

Dr. Simon: All right. Your memory is very sharp, but you needn't be worried.  Remember everything now and tell me all that happened. What are you thinking now?

Betty Hill: I'm thinking I'm asleep. 

Dr. Simon: You're asleep in the car? (Pause) Go on. Tell me everything that you're thinking.

Betty Hill: I'm thinking I'm asleep and I've got to wake up.  I've got to wake up.  I don't want to be asleep.  I keep trying. I've got to wake myself up. And I try and I go back again. I keep trying. I keep trying to wake up. (Sudden increase in rate of verbalization) Then I do! I open my eyes and I'm walking through the woods!  I just open them quickly and then I shut them again. Even though I'm asleep, we were walking.  (Sobs) And there's a man on this side and there's a man on this side……And two men in front of me and I think, was I all alone with them? And there's me and I think, "Well, where's Barney?"  And I look at these men, and I turn around and Barney's behind me.

Dr. Simon: Barney's behind you. Um-huh.

Betty Hill: And there's a couple of men behind me, and then there's Barney and he's……. (Sobs) And there's a man on each side of him.  And my eyes are open, but Barney is still asleep. He's walking and he's asleep.  And the uh……. Then I begin to get mad, and I go, “Who the heck are these characters and what do they think they're doing?”  So, I turn around and I say, "Barney, wake up. Barney, why don't you wake up?"  And he doesn't pay any attention.  He keeps walking and I keep going a little bit further and I turn around and I say his name again, "Barney, wake up!"  And he doesn't pay any attention and then, the man who's walking beside me  says, "Oh, is his name Barney?"  And I turn around and I looked at this man and I figured it was none of his business. So, I didn't speak to him.  Then we keep walking and I try to wake Barney up again. I keep saying, "Barney, Barney wake up." But he doesn’t, so the man said……He asked me again……. He said, "Is Barney his name?"  Then I wouldn't tell him, so he said, "Don't be afraid.  You don't have any reason to be afraid.  We're not going to harm you.  We just want to do some tests, and when the tests are over with, we'll take you and Barney back and put you in your car, and you'll be on your way back home in no time."  So, I mean he was sort of reassuring in a way, but I wasn't……. I can't say that I trusted what he said.  And I wasn't sure what was going to happen…. And we kept walking and Barney was still asleep and then……….

Dr. Simon: You mean he was walking in his sleep?

Betty Hill: Yuh. He was just like sleepwalking.

Dr. Simon: And these men spoke good English?

Betty Hill: Uh, only one spoke, the one who was on my left and he said……and then he was more or less …………He had an accent. He had sort of a foreign accent, but he was, you know business like. So then, we kept walking, and we came to a clearing and there was ………. Oh, I wish it was lighter so I could get a better picture of it.  There was a ramp and a door. The object was on the ground.

Dr. Simon: The object was on the ground?

Betty Hill: I think it was the same one I was watching in the sky and there were trees, and then, there was a path and there was this clearing and this object……. I could see it just about filled up this clearing. And they're taking me up to the object.  And I don't want to go on it!  I don't know what's going to happen if I go on it.  So, I don't want to go.  And Barney's no protection. He's sound asleep.  And I don't want to go on it.

Dr. Simon: He's sound asleep.  What was he doing, walking along? Is there somebody supporting him?

Betty Hill: Yuh, there's a man on each side.  One has each arm, and they're sort of ………. And his eyes are shut, and he doesn't hear anything I say, and he's sort of……..he's standing on his own two feet.  But he's just dazed, and they're sort of directing him and helping him along.  Anyway, he's quite a bit taller than the men. 

Dr. Simon: He's taller than the men?

Betty Hill: Yuh…Yuh, he's way above them………So anyway, we get to the arc, and I don't want to go on.  And so, the man behind me say's to go on.  And he's a little angry with me. “Oh, go on. The longer you stand out here fooling around, the longer it’s going to take, so why don't you just go on and get it over with, and get back to your car?  We haven't got much time either.”  So, he or one of the other men………I still don't want to go……. took my arm and I got sort of a helpless feeling. It was the best I could do at this point. I suppose I'd just go along with them.  And I go up the ramp, and I go inside, and in the corridor to the left. We go up the corridor and there's a room, and they start to take me in the room. 

I'm standing in the doorway, and I turn around waiting for them to bring Barney in.  But they don't do this. They lead Barney right past the door where I'm standing.  So, I said, "What are you doing with Barney? Bring him in here where I am. And the man says, "No. We've only got equipment enough in one room to do one person at a time.  If we took you both in the same room it would take too long. So, Barney will be all right. They're going to take him into the next room.  And then as soon as we get done testing the both of you, you will go back to the car.  And you don't have to be afraid.  And so, I watch them take Barney into the next room and I go in this room, and some of the men come in the room with this man who speaks English and me, and they stay for a minute. I don't know who they are.  I guess they're the crew.  But they only stay for a minute and the man who speaks English is there, and another man comes in, and I haven't seen him before.  I think he's a doctor.  And they came in the door.

And in one corner there's a stool…. a white……Is it white? I don't know if it's white or chrome.  There's a stool and the………. the……stool, and they put me on the stool. I sit on the stool, and I have a blue dress on, and they push up the sleeve of my dress and they look at my arm here……. They both look at my arm. They turn my arm over and they look at it one here…….and they have a machine……I don't know what it is. And they bring the machine over, and they put it………. I don't know what kind of machine.  It's something like a microscope, only a microscope with a big lens.  And they put a……a…. I don't know.  I had an idea they were taking a picture of my skin. And they both looked through this machine here and here, and then they were talk………I don't know……. I couldn't understand what they were saying.  And then they took a something like a letter opener, only it wasn't. They scraped my arm here…they scraped, and they looked like little ………You know how your skin gets dry and flaky sometimes like little particles of skin?…………. They put, there was something like a little piece of cellophane plastic……something like that, and they put what came off on the plastic. And then the man who spoke English………. They both spoke English……The man who brought me on this contraption is the one who took and he ………… (Tape ends)

Dr. Simon: (Tape resumes) You can go right over your story.

Betty Hill: So, I'm sitting on the stool and there's this little bracket.  My head is resting against the bracket. And the examiner opens my eyes and looks at them with a light. And he opens my mouth, and he looks at my throat and my teeth and he looks in my ears. And then, he turned my head, and he looks in this ear. And then he takes like a swab or q-tip, I guess it is like that they use on babies, and he cleaned out, he puts it in my left ear.  And he puts this on another piece of material. And the leader takes it and rolls it up and puts it in the top drawer, too.  Oh, then he feels my hair, then the back of my neck. And they take a couple of strands of my hair, and they pull it out and he gives this to the leader, and he wraps that all up and puts that in the top drawer. Then he takes something that may be like scissors. I don't know what it is, and they cut a piece of my hair here.  They cut off a piece of it and he gives that to him. And then he feels my neck. He starts feeling behind my ears and under my chin and down my neck and through my shoulders around my collarbone. And then they take off my shoes and they look at my feet and they look at my hands. (Still speaking without hesitation) They look my hands all over and he takes……Uh…

The light is very bright, and so some…. I don't always…. My eyes aren't open……I am still a little scared too.  I'm not particularly interested in looking at them.  And so, I try to keep my eyes shut and then I do open…. You know not all the time. I sort of give myself a little relief by not looking at them. I shut my eyes, and he takes something, and he goes underneath my fingernail. And then he takes something, I don't know, probably manicure scissors or something and he cuts off a piece of my fingernail.  And they look my feet all over.  They keep…. I don't think they do anything to them.  They just feel my feet and my toes and all.

And then the doctor, the examiner says he wants to do some tests. He wants to check my nervous system. He wants to find out how my nerves and his nerves are different. And I think he's got…. I don't know how their nervous systems are but hope that we'd never have nerve enough to go around kidnapping people right off the highways like he's done.  And I …..He tells me to take off my dress, and then, before I have a chance hardly to stand up and do it, the examiner……My dress has a zipper down the back …In the back? Yuh, it has a zipper down the back and the examiner unzips my……. Yuh, it goes way down to my waist, the zipper does. (*When Betty arrived home, she noticed that her dress was torn, so she folded it and placed it in her closet. After Dr. Simon gave her permission to consciously recall this hypnotically retrieved memory, she removed her dress from the closet. Betty recalled that the examiner had struggled with her zipper. This caused her dress to tear. On the left side of the zipper, she found a one-inch tear in the thick zipper fabric. On the right side, there was a two-inch tear in the stitching. Additionally, a pink powdery substance coated portions of her dress. The dress has undergone forensic analysis, and the lab reports are on file. The dress is in the Hills' archival collection at the Milne Special Collections Library at UNH.) 

And so, I slip my dress off. I don't have my dress or my shoes on and there's a……. Next over is a stool and then out in the middle of the room is a table, some kind of table. It's not very high.  I would say about the height of a desk. Ah, I lie down on the table on by back and he brings over this…. Ah, oh, how can I describe it?………They're like needles. There's a whole cluster of needles and each needle has a wire running from it and ah, I don't know.  There's some kind of a gadget on the end of these needles.  I think it's something, ah, ah like a TV picture screen.  You know when the picture isn't on; you get all kinds of lines or something like that.  And so, he puts me down on the table and they bring these needles over, and they don't stick them into me.  No, not really, no not like sticking a needle into a person. But they touch me with the needles. The…the, ah, It doesn't hurt, except where was it? Someplace ………Then he just touches me. I just feel a needle touching me. It doesn't hurt at all.  But then he does it all up in back of my ears and um, in here somehow, and up over all different spots on my head. And then he goes, they go along my neck here, and then into here, somehow, or other.  And then…down here on my arms and here. I don't know.  They keep putting (Unintelligible). And then he puts it on my knee and when he did, my leg jumped. And then…on my foot, too. They did it around my ankle somehow or other.

And then they have me roll over on my stomach and they pull my slip up around my neck and they touch all along my back. They touch with these needles somehow or other. I don't know what they're doing but they seem to be happy about whatever they're doing.  And then, oh! They……. they check in………They have some kind of record they're making.  I don't know just what it is.

Then they roll me over on my back (distressed tone of voice) and the examiner has a long needle in his hand, and I see the needle, and it's bigger than any needle I've ever seen.  And I asked him what he is going to do with it, and he said, "Just a simple test."  It won't hurt me. (Weeping) And I ask him what? And he said he just wants to put it in my navel and it's just a simple test.  I tell him no. It will hurt. Don't do it.  Don't do it.  And he says, "No, it won't hurt." And he sticks the needle into my navel, and it hurts. (Crying) And I'm crying, and I tell him, "It’s hurting. It's hurting and hurting.  Take it out."  And then the leader…. He goes over and he puts his hand, runs his hand in front of my eyes and he says I'll be all right.  I won't feel it. (Relieved sigh) And all the pain goes away. (Deep breathing and Ah………) But I still (Unintelligible) the pain goes away, but I'm still sore from where they put that nee…. I don't know why they put that long needle into my navel.  I tried to tell them it was……. They shouldn't do it. (Sobbing) But… (Deep breath)

Dr. Simon: Did they make any sexual advances toward you?

Betty Hill: No.

Dr. Simon: They didn't.

Betty Hill: No. I asked the leader……. I said, "Why did he stick the needle…Why did they stick the needle in my navel?"  And he said it was a pregnancy test. And I said, "Well, I don't know what they expected, but that was no pregnancy test here."  And he didn't say any more.

Dr. Simon: All right, we'll stop there now.  You'll be relieved, relaxed and at ease……. perfectly at ease. Comfortable and relaxed……You'll be comfortable and relaxed. When I wake you up you will not remember anything that has transpired here. You will not remember anything that has transpired here. Until I tell you to recall it. You are not to remember anything that has transpired here until I tell you to recall it. But it will not trouble you. You will not be worried about it. You will be comfortable and relaxed and at ease. No pains, no aches, no anxiety. Whenever I say, "Trance Betty" you'll go into a deep trance and at once obey all of my commands, and only when I say it, will you recall what has transpired here.  You will have no fear, no anxiety, comfortable and relaxed, no pains, no aches, no anxiety. You may wake now. (Pause)……. How do you feel?

Betty Hill: (Laughs) I woke, I wake, all the way awake. Wake or won't.

Dr. Simon: Now you will wake completely. (Betty makes several deep-breathing sounds) What happened?

Betty Hill: I had a long journey, but I……………….

Dr. Simon: Do you feel all right now?

Betty Hill: (Whispers) Yuh.

Dr. Simon: Talk to me. That's good.  All right, we'll continue next time.  I'll see you a week from today at the same time.  You say your head's fuzzy?

Betty Hill: Yuh, my head feels fuzzy. 

Dr. Simon's note: This interview was going rather smoothly until the areas of fear in the later part of the sighting of the flying object when she began to show very marked disturbance.  She wept. Tears were running down her cheeks. She squirmed in the chair. The same occurred with very marked agitation during the procedure that appeared to be taking place in the strange object………The apparent……. uh…..medical examination. Tears were running down Mrs. Hill's cheeks. Her nose was running, although she accepted a Kleenex quite readily. It was thought best to stop at this point even though she was in the quote "operating room" unquote because of the degree of agitation that had ensued. Both were given appointments to return a week from today.

Betty has experienced two nightmares in the week following her last hypnosis session, which seem to be related to her conscious memories of the UFO sighting and her recall of these during hypnotic regression. 

Dr. Simon interviews her in detail about her examination and conversation on board the UFO.  He also questions her about their arrival home, her conversation with her sister Janet, regarding the use of a compass on the car, and the description of the spots on the car.  She discusses Barney's reaction after their arrival home and their formal report to Pease Air Force Base.  He begins to probe NICAP’s investigation of their sighting.

 Dr. Simon: It is March 14, 1964.  The Hills are expected at 8:00 and the examination of Mrs. Hill will be continued at the point at which it was stopped a week ago, just after the instrument had been removed from her navel for the quote "pregnancy test" unquote.  

Hypnosis session begins:

Dr. Simon: You had two dreams or nightmares…….

Betty Hill: Nightmares.

Dr. Simon: And the first one was when?

Betty Hill: It was on Tuesday night.

Dr. Simon: On the Tuesday after you saw me.  Yes. What was that about?

Betty Hill: I can't remember what that one was about.  I can remember that there was water, a lake I think, and a shoreline.  But I can't remember anything else.  

Dr. Simon: Was it any particular lake?

Betty Hill: No.

Dr. Simon: Um-huh.  Then the other one…then…

 Betty Hill: The other one was uh… the………I don't know where I was but the… there was… there was a light, and it was bouncing all around and I could see this light.  And it would bounce towards me and then it would go away.  And, uh…. I felt as though I was in great danger from the light, and it was going to touch me.  And it was going to shine on me, and I didn't want this to happen.  And just as it was coming towards me, I woke up…………I was trying to scream.  I don't know if I did scream or not, but I woke myself up.  

 Dr. Simon: Barney didn't know about it?  

 Betty Hill: Well, it frightened me so much I woke him up.

 Dr. Simon: Um-huh.  Do you sleep in twin beds?

 Betty Hill: No, in a double bed.

 Dr. Simon: In a double bed.  But you woke him up?

 Betty Hill: I woke him up right after………..

 Dr. Simon: You mean you deliberately woke him up?

 Betty Hill: Yes.  

 Dr. Simon: You didn't therefore, apparently you must not have screamed.  

 Betty Hill: I don't think I did.

 Dr. Simon: Because if you had screamed you would have supposed it would wake him up, wouldn't you? 

 Betty Hill: Yuh.

 Dr. Simon: Did this resemble anything?  Now, you remember your UFO experience… there where you had this vehicle coming close and all.  Was it anything like that or do you think it was different?

 Betty Hill: This was like uh, almost like the light of a flashlight.  This type of thing and it was bouncing around.  It was small.

 Dr. Simon: It was small? Not like a photographic light or a spotlight from somewhere? 

 Betty Hill: It would be more like a spotlight.  

 Dr. Simon: Like a spotlight?  Like an operating room light or anything like that?

 Betty Hill: Smaller than that.

 Dr. Simon: Smaller than that.  Um-huh.  Anything like a light for example that some doctors would wear on a head mirror? 

 Betty Hill: I think it would be larger than that.  I would say it probably was about six or eight inches in diameter.

 Dr. Simon: Oh, I see. All right then, outside of that everything has been all right?  You haven't been worried or upset about our last session in any way?  You don't remember anything about it?  

 Betty Hill: I think I do but I'm not sure.

 Dr. Simon: What do you think you remember?

 Betty Hill: The uh, I remember crying and I can remember well, I think I can remember sitting in the car and watching Barney out on the highway.  And seeing men in the road.

 Dr. Simon: You saw men in the road?  Can you envision them now?

 Betty Hill: Yes.

 Dr. Simon: What do they look like?

 Betty Hill: It’s not clear enough to make out anything.

 Dr. Simon: Do they look like ordinary American men?

 Betty Hill: No, they're different somehow.

 Dr. Simon: In what way do you think?

 Betty Hill: I don't know.

 Dr. Simon: Was there a vehicle in the road that you can think of?

 Betty Hill: No.

 Dr. Simon: A car, motorcycles anything like that?  

 Betty Hill: No.

 Dr. Simon: Did you see some special clothes, uniforms or some standardized form of dress?

 Betty Hill: I think that they were all dressed alike but I couldn't describe how they were dressed.  

 Dr. Simon: Do you have any idea why you were crying?  You say you remember; you think you remember crying?

 Betty Hill: Why do I think I was crying?

 Dr. Simon: Um-huh.

 Betty Hill: Because I was scared.

 Dr. Simon: What were you scared of?

 Betty Hill: Because I knew something was going to happen, but I didn't know what it was.

 Dr. Simon: I see.  All right, well that's all right.  So, now we'll continue.  Trance Betty.  Deep, deep sleep, deep asleep, far asleep, deeper and deeper.  You're fully relaxed and in a very deep sleep.  Deeper and deeper and deeper asleep.  Deeper and deeper…. A very very deep sleep, comfortable and relaxed.  No fear, no anxiety, very deep sleep.  Deeper and deeper and deeper asleep.  No fear and no anxiety.  When I stroke the top of your hand you will lose all sensation there.  You will not feel any pain.  Now it's all clear and normal in sensation.  You go deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper, deeper and deeper.  You are deep asleep.  Now you are in a very deep sleep…Comfortable and relaxed.  No pains, no aches, no anxiety.  We will go back to where we were a week ago, just where we left off in your experiences…Just exactly where we left off.  Where are you now?

 Betty Hill: The….. I'm on the table and the leader …. they’d hurt me by putting this needle into my navel and the leader had put his over…. run his hand over my eyes, and when he did that I didn't have any more pain.  It went away and I felt very relaxed, and I felt grateful to him because I didn't feel any more pain.

 Dr. Simon: About this needle, was there anything attached to it like a wire or a tube?

 Betty Hill: Yes.

 Dr. Simon: What did it look like?

 Betty Hill: It was a long needle. I would say it looked like a regular needle used for injections or maybe to take blood out………. I don't know.

 Dr. Simon: Was there a syringe attached to it?

 Betty Hill: Yes, there was something and uh, I don't know why they did it.  It was some kind of a test. And I didn't want them to do it.  I said it would hurt, and the leader said it wouldn't hurt.  And when it did he was very surprised and that was when he put his hand in front of my eyes……..went over my eyes, and that is when the pain stopped. And then………….

 Dr. Simon: How far in did he stick this needle?

 Betty Hill: Oh, it was a long needle.  I don't know.  I thought it………I didn't look.  But, I would say the needle was four inches long, six inches maybe.

 Dr. Simon: Did you say there was something attached to it like a wire or a tube?

 Betty Hill: Like a tube.  And they didn't leave it in very………. Just for a second.  

 Dr. Simon: What kind of pain was it?  Was the kind of pain you get when you get a needle put in your arm? I guess you have given blood or something like that at times.

 Betty Hill: No, it wasn't like that.  It was………All I could think of was a knife.

 Dr. Simon: Like a knife.

 Betty Hill: The…a…because it was such…….so much pain.  I think I was moaning, and I couldn't lie still.

 Dr. Simon: Was there a light there?

 Betty Hill: The room was brightly lighted.

 Dr. Simon: Was there any kind of a spotlight?  

 Betty Hill: Yes.  That was……..there was a light behind my left shoulder like a spotlight.

 Dr. Simon: How big was it?

 Betty Hill: Oh, ah, it was like a desk light. I don't know, six inches. 

 (*Betty seems to be confusing her dream memories with her hypnotic recall of the craft’s interior.  Later, Betty denied the presence of a light fixture in the room. She stated that a  blue-white light permeated through the walls and ceiling.) 

 Dr. Simon: All right.  Go On.

 Betty Hill: And well, I was grateful to the leader for stopping the pain and he seemed to be surprised, so they said that was the end of the testing. And the leader helped me sit up.  He took a hold of my arm, and I swung around on the table, and………….

 Dr. Simon: Was this a………. What sort of table was this? Was this an examining table such as you've perhaps seen at a doctor's or an operating table?

 Betty Hill: It was like a regular examining table.  The, and, well, let's see now.  I'm trying to think of it………Well, it wasn't like the examining table that some doctors………..I don't know if all doctors have the same kind of examining table. This was more like a……..It was a long table, but it wasn't awfully long.  I guess it was like a regular examining table. It was light.  I mean it was white or metal.  It was metal I know.  It was hard.  It wasn't soft or that type of thing.  So, the examiner was help……. He helped me get up off the table and I swung around and my shoe………. He gave me my shoes and I put those on and got down on the floor.  And my dress was there, and I put my dress on.  And I went to zip it up and he took a hold of it at the top and zipped it up.  And then, oh, I said, "I can go now.  I can go back to the car, and he said, "Barney isn't ready yet."  So, then I begin to get worried, and I ask him why it was taking so long with Barney.  And he said that they were doing a few more tests with him but he'd be right along in a minute.  And, ah the, there was a cabinet there and the doctor-the examiner; he had gone out of the room.  There was just the leader and me there.

 Dr. Simon: So, there was a doctor there you say?

 Betty Hill: The man who did the examining…he did the testing.  And he left, so there was just the leader and me, so I felt…I mean I was grateful to him because he had stopped my pain.  And now I wasn't afraid at all, and so I started talking with the leader and I said to him that this had been quite an experience.  It was unbelievable…that no one would ever, ever believe me, and that most people didn't even know that he was alive.  And what I needed was some proof that this had really happened. So, he laughed, and he said well what kind of proof did I want?  What would I like?  And I said, well if he could give me something to take back with me, then people would believe it. And so, he told me to look around and maybe I could find something I would like to take.  And I did and there wasn't much around but on the cabinet there was a book, a fairly big book.  So, I put my hand on the book, and I said could I have this? Then he said……..He told me to look in the book and I did.  It had pages and (Unintelligible) writing.  But not like I'd ever seen before.  It looked almost like a, well I don't know, a……. It wasn't a dictionary………Maybe a……. I don't know.  It had the…the writing didn't go across.  It went up and down. 

(*In 2020 Betty sketched the symbols that she could recall and described the book to me. She said, "The book resembled a thin, shiny plastic with printing under it. It was an inch or less thick. It had a dark cover that was stiff, but not thick.") 

Dr. Simon: Did it look like any language that you know or was it in English.

 Betty Hill: No, it wasn't in English.

 Dr. Simon: Did it look like………. What languages do you know where the writing goes up and down?

 Betty Hill: I don't know it, but I recognize it. I can't read it.

 Dr. Simon: Yuh, what?

 Betty Hill: Japanese.

 Dr. Simon: Japanese.  Did this look like Japanese writing?

 Betty Hill: No.

 Dr. Simon: Was it writing or printing?

 Betty Hill: It was different………I don't know because it was, I mean I couldn't tell Japanese. I couldn't tell.  I suppose it would be printing in Japanese. I don't know, even though I have seen Japanese written, it had short lines, and some were very thin, and some were medium, and some were heavy.  They had some dots, and they had straight lines and curved lines, and the leader laughed, and he asked me if I thought I could read it. And I told him…………I laughed too, and I said, "No." But I wasn't taking it to read.  That this was going to be my proof that it had happened...That this was my proof.  So, he said that I could have the book if I wanted it, and I picked it up, and I was delighted.  I mean, this was more than I had ever hoped for.  And I'm standing there and I'm saying that I had never seen anything like the book and that I was very pleased that he had given it to me and that maybe some way I could figure out in time how to read it.  

And so, then I said that…………. I asked him where he was from.  I knew he wasn't from the earth, and I wanted to know, where did he come from?  And he asked me if I knew anything about the Universe and I told him, "No", that I know practically nothing; but that when I was in grade school, we were taught that the sun was the center of the solar system and that there were nine planets.  And then later, of course, we did make advances and I told him about seeing, I think I met him one time, about Harlow Shapley. And he wrote a book too.  And ah, I had seen photographs that he had taken of millions and millions of stars in the Universe.  But that was about all I knew.  So, he said that he wished that I had known more about this.  And I said I wish I did too.  And he went over across the room to the head of the table, and he did something.  He opened up; it wasn't like a drawer.  He did something and the metal of the wall...There was an opening, and he pulled out a map and he asked me had I ever seen a map like this before, and I walked across the room and I leaned against the table, and I looked at it. And it was a map of ………. It was an oblong map.  Ah, it wasn't square.  It was a lot wider than it was long and there were all these dots on it.  And they were scattered all over it.  Some were little, just pinpoints and others were as big as a nickel. And there were lines.  There were…on some of the dots, there were curved lines going from one dot to another and there was one big circle, and it had a lot of lines coming out from it, a lot of lines going to another circle quite close but not as big.  And these were heavy lines, and I asked him what they meant, and he said that the broken lines were expeditions.  So, I asked him what, where was his home port and he said, “Where are you on this map?"  And I laughed and I said, "I don't know." So, he said, "Well then, if you don't know where you are, there wouldn't be any point in my telling you where I am."  Then he put the map…..the map rolled up and he put it back in the space in the wall and closed it.  And I felt very stupid because I didn't know where the earth was on the map.  And, I asked him, well could he show me, could he open up the map again and could he show me where Earth was?  And he just laughed, and then I got the book. 

I'm carrying the book.  I’ve got it in my arm.  It's a big book. And so, I went back to the cabinet and put the book down and started to look through it again. And all of a sudden (I heard) this noise out in the hall and some of the other men come in and with them is the examiner, and they are quite excited.  So, I ask the leader, "What's the matter?  Has something happened to Barney?  What is it?  It's something to do with Barney."  And the examiner has me open my mouth and he starts checking my teeth and they are tugging at them.  And I asked him what are they trying to do?  

 Dr. Simon: What were they doing?

 Betty Hill: They were pulling………tugging at my teeth.

 Dr. Simon: Tugging at them, yes?

 Betty Hill: Yes.  And the examiner said that……..He was very excited, and he said that

(Laughs) He said that they couldn't figure it out, Barney’s teeth came out and mine didn't. (Copious laughter) And I was really laughing, and I said that Barney had dentures, and I didn't and that's why his teeth would come out.  And they…so then, they asked me, "What were dentures?"  And I said that people as they got older lost their teeth.  They had to go to the dentist and have their teeth extracted and they put in dentures, or a person sometimes……. Barney had to have dentures because he had a mouth injury of some sort, and he had to have his teeth extracted. And so, he had dentures put in.  And the leader said, "Does this happen to many people?"  And he was very uh………..He acted as if didn't believe me and I said, Yes, it happens to almost everyone as they get older." And he said, "Well, what's older?"  And I said, "Old age." So, he said, "What's old age?"  And I said, "Well, it varies but as a person gets older there are changes in him, particularly physically.  He sort of begins to break down with old age."  And so, he said, "Well, what is age?"  What did I mean by age?  I said that the life span, the lifetime that people lived.  And he said, "How long was this?"  And I said, "I think a life span is supposed to be about one hundred years, but people can die before that and most of them do because of disease or accidents; this type of thing.  That and I think the average length of time was near, I don't know, sixty-five or seventy.  So, he said, "Well sixty-five or seventy what?"

What did I mean, and I said, "Years."  So, he said then, "What is a year?" And I said that I didn't know exactly how it was figured out, but it had something to do with so many days, and the days had so many hours, and the hours had so many minutes, and the minutes had so many seconds.  It depended on the rotation of the earth and the position of the planets and the seasons and all.  And that I had my watch on, and I showed him that from 12:00 to 12:00 would be from twelve noon to midnight, but he didn't understand what I was saying, and I couldn't………..I don't know.

 Dr. Simon: But he did understand English.  I that it?  

 Betty Hill: Yah.  So, then he said, well ah, oh I said, to get back to dentures, "that people believe that some of this is the proper diet. Things that people eat have a bearing too, on their health and how long their teeth serve them" and this type of thing. So, then he asked me, what did we eat?  I said that we eat meat potatoes, vegetables, and milk and all.  So, he asked me, "What are vegetables?"  And I said that this was a broad term and could cover a great variety of certain kinds of foods we eat.  And I couldn't explain just what vegetables were.  There were too many.  So, he said, was there one kind that I liked, that I ate, and I said that I ate a great many, but my favorite was squash.  So, he said, "Well, tell me about squash."  So, I said well it was yellow, usually in color.  So, he said, "Well what is yellow?"  So, I said, "Well, I'll show you" and I started walking around the room looking and I couldn't find anything yellow at all.  There was nothing yellow. I wasn't………I didn't have anything; I wasn't wearing anything yellow.  And so, I told him I couldn't show him what the color was, but it was a bright color something like we consider sunlight as sort of a like yellow.  There was no sense talking about vegetables because I couldn't explain what I meant. Oh! I said, "I can't tell you about vegetables because I don't know how to do this.  I can't tell you where the earth is on the map.  I don't know. All these things you ask me, I don't know.  

I'm a very limited person when trying to talk to you.  But there are other people in the country who are not like me."…………….  That they would be most happy to talk with him………  That they could answer all of his questions. And that maybe if they could come back………. If we could make arrangements for a meeting, I could, maybe I could, if he gave me time enough…somehow I could find these people and I could arrange for him to meet them.  And it would have to be done so there would be no danger involved.  I wouldn't want him to be exposed to any danger. That I don't know how I could do it, I don't know how I could.  I'd work it out somehow.  If he could come, I want him to come back, I want him…………… And he's just looking at me and I ………."Will you come back? Can we work out something?"  And then his questions would all have answers, and other people could get all of the things I would like to know, too.  And he says, "I don't know.  I don't know.  It's not my decision to make."  So, could you discuss it with the person who does have the decision to make? And he said, "Yes."  And I said, "Well, if you do decide to come back, I mean if it can be worked out, I would need time.  It would take some time.  I just couldn't go out on the spur of the moment and round up people to meet with you.  I mean, it would have to be people that we knew were all right and would have the background and all.  And I wouldn't even know where to meet him.  And he laughed………And he said, "Don't worry; if we decide to come back, we'll be able to find you all right."  But I said, "I don't live around here.  I don't live in this area."  And he said, "We'll find you."  And I said, "How? How will you find me out of millions of people?"  And he said, "We will.  We always do find those we want to."  And I said, “Well now, what do you mean by that remark?"  And he just laughed.  

And then Barney's coming. They're bringing Barney……….. I hear the men out in the corridor, and I said, “Barney's coming."  And he said, "Yes.  You can go back to the car now."  And I got the book, and Barney is coming up and Barney's eyes are still shut.  Good heavens, he's missed an awful lot.  I wonder if they made him keep his eyes shut or if he's scared.  And so, now it's time to go back to the car and the leader said, "Come on, we'll walk back to the car with you."  And I said, "But I do wish………..I wish I knew if you were going to come back." And he said, "Well, we'll see."  And we're out into the corridor and Barney's behind me with his eyes shut and there's a man on each side of him.  

And I'm already to go down the ramp when some of the other men, not the leader, but some of the other men are talking.  I don't know what they're saying.  They're very excited.  And the leader is saying something and they're quite………. they’re undecided about something and then oh! (Disappointed) The leader comes over and takes my book.  And I said, now I'm furious and I said, "You promised me I could have the book.  You gave me your word I could have it." And he said, "I know it."  He said, "But the others object.  They don't want you to have it."  And I said, "But this is my proof.  If you take the book away from me, I'll have no proof that this has happened."  And he said, "That's the whole point. We don't want you to know what's happened.  We want you to forget all about it and that's why I'm taking the book."  And I won't forget about it.  "You can take the book, but you can never, never, never make me forget about it, because I'll remember it if it's the last thing I ever do." I want the book, and he won't give it to me.  And he laughs and he says, "Maybe you will remember.  I don't know.  I hope you don't but maybe you will. But it won't do you any good if you do because Barney won't.  Barney won't remember one single thing.  And not only that, if he should remember anything at all, he's going to remember it differently from you and all you're going to do is get each other so confused you won't know what's going on.  If you do remember it would be better if you forgot it anyway."  And I said, "Why, are you trying to threaten me because you can't scare me, and I won't forget it.  I'll remember somehow."  

So, then he said, "All right now, come on let's go back to the car.  We'll take you back to the car." and ……………Oh, I've been standing there on the side of the ramp talking to him and I'm at the ramp now and they're taking Barney ahead while we were talking.  So, the other men are going ahead, and he said, "You know, I had no objections to you having the book, but the others object and they have as much right to make this decision as I do."  So, I said, "All right, I won't be mad at you, but I wish I would be able to have some proof of this because it is the most unbelievable thing that ever happened."        And we're walking and the path is just a short distance.  It doesn't seem like a very long distance at all.  It's like half as long………. It doesn't seem very long at all.  Like going in, going in seemed like awful long, but not now.  And we go back, and he said, "I'm going to leave you here and why don't you stand by the side of the car. And watch us leave."  So, I said, "All right, I'd like that if we're not in any danger from it."  And he said, "No I don't……..You'll be far enough away."  So, I said, "All right, I'll watch you leave, and I wanted to thank him for…………It had been a wonderful experience."  And oh, he said, he said, (that) "I was very badly frightened in the beginning." And I said, "Yes.”  And he said that he was sorry for this but…………. And I said this had been a new experience and I didn't know what was happening, but I certainly wasn't afraid now and that this had been an amazing experience.  I don't know, maybe I would forget it.  I don't know yet.  I'd have to think about it but whether I forgot about……………I never would forget him.  Because I'd never met anybody like him, and I hoped that somehow we would meet again.  Maybe he would come back and meet people who could answer his questions.  And said well he would try. 

And they turn around and they start to go back, and Barney is ahead of me.  He goes and gets in the car.  I'm not going to get in the car.  I'm going to stay outside to get a better view.  So, I'm just………. they’re going back and there's the car and I'm very happy to see the car and I'm just overwhelmed with everything.  I'm really delighted about the whole thing.  We get………. I got out to the car and Barney's inside and I opened the car door and I said, "Come on out and watch them leave."  And Barney is still in a fog sort of, but he's got his eyes open now, but he's acting more normally, so I said,

“Come on out." 

Delsey's sitting on the seat where I sit, and I felt of Delsey, and she is trembling all over.  And she's scared, so I said, Well Barney, come on out and I'll get Delsey."  And I picked Delsey up off the seat and I'm holding Delsey and I'm patting her and I'm saying, "Don't be afraid, Delsey.  There's nothing to be afraid of.  Look Delsey, look."  And I'm leaning against the fender of the car, and I shut the car door and I'm leaning against the fender and I'm looking up and I say, "Barney, look."  And Barney comes out and stands aside of me and I'm patting Delsey and I said, "Oh, it was the most wonderful experience that I've ever had."  And we're going to watch it leave and I said, "Delsey, turn around and look, Delsey.  Don't hide your head.  You're the only dog in the world that’s probably ever seen this.  At least that people know the dog has seen it.  And Delsey won't look.  She's still shaking and I'm holding her.  And it starts glowing.  It, oh, it's getting brighter and brighter……….

 Dr. Simon: What's getting brighter?

 Betty Hill: The object in the woods.

 Dr. Simon: Now, this is the object you saw in the sky before?

 Betty Hill: Yes, I think so.  Only now it's like a whole big ball.  It's like a big orange ball and it’s glowing and glowing and it's rolling just like a ball.  Now it's rolling and it goes, and it goes down.  It must be a ………..I don't know, water? Do they go under water? It goes down and there's a dip and then, zoom.  It looks………It's big at first and I kind of hate to see it leave.  And they keep going away, farther and farther.  And I say, "Well Barney there they go and we’re none the worse for the experience. Let's get in the car and head back to Portsmouth."  And he goes around and gets……….and he's driving, and I get in on the other side and I put Delsey over in the back seat on the floor and I pat her on the head and tell her she's a good dog.  And Barney started the car, and we started to ride and I just…………..ah, I'm just so happy the whole thing happened, and I said to Barney, "Well Barney, come on, try to tell me now that you don't believe in flying saucers." And Barney said, "Oh don't be ridiculous." And I think he's joking but I'm not sure.  Then all of a sudden, we get the beep, beep, beep…………beep, beep, beep, beep on the trunk of the car again.

 Dr. Simon: This is the second time you're getting the beep, is it?

 Betty Hill: Yes.  And I said, "Well I guess that's their farewell.  They're off wherever they're going."  And I don't know, it was just so fantastic we just……..I suppose we should forget all about it.  

 Dr. Simon: What did you say to each other now?  

 Betty Hill: Well, when Barney said, "Don't be ridiculous," I figured he doesn't……. I don't know if he's kidding me or not.  And so, I don't say anything, but he says…….so I know he, he, he is conscious of this, he said, "Well, look out and see if you can see them around anywhere."  I mean how can you look out to see something around that you just denied existed?  So, I do, I look around and every once and a while on the way home I keep looking for them.  And I keep wondering, "Have they gone.  How far away have they gone?"  But I still have the feeling that they're close and I do…I keep looking for them.  I look through the binoculars………. outside of Concord, North of Concord………..No we didn't stop, but we slowed down very, very slowly and I was watching with the binoculars… But I didn't see them again, but I kept looking for them all of the way home.  And I said, "Well………………and we keep riding along and I say, we won't believe it.  I mean nobody ………………Well heck, anyway, let's forget about the whole thing.  It's too fantastic.  People will think we're crazy.  I mean to just talk about flying saucers, people think you're, you know, way out.  And this is so far beyond just seeing something go through the sky that I think I'm willing to forget about it.  I mean, I might as well.  What can I do with it, really? But I wonder if they ever will come back.  I go around looking for them.  I don't think the………..I keep looking at the sky for them and then I look out the window when we got back……..in the kitchen at home.  Barney took some of the things out of………. It was daylight when we got home,    

……. Dawn anyway and I could hear the birds singing and Barney brought some of the things in out of the car.  I don't know,……………. not everything.  And then I had one of these iceboxes that you put ice in, and you can keep food while you're traveling, and he brought that in.  There wasn't much in it, but I threw everything out right away.  The… and I didn't want to touch anything.  I started to think about………..I didn't say anything but if these people were not from this earth what about radioactivity and cosmic rays and viruses.  I mean what did they bring in with them?  What did we come in contact with and what did we expose them to?  And, I was…. I put everything out in the back hall I could think of and …………I took………I, I soaked in the tub, and I shampooed my hair and I kept, I didn't, I wasn't afraid, but I kept thinking, “Well you know this is, I don't but, what if but, I don’t” ………..And I kept thinking, “I wish I knew someone who had a Geiger counter.”

 Dr Simon: Who had a what?

 Betty Hill: I think it's what…a Geiger counter?

 Dr. Simon: Oh yes.

 Betty Hill: It measures radioactivity. 

 Dr. Simon: Um-huh.

 Betty Hill: And I didn't know anybody, so I said, "the heck with it all" and went to bed.  

 Dr. Simon: Did you and Barney discuss your mutual experiences in the object?

 Betty Hill: Nope.

 Dr. Simon: You didn't talk about it at all?

 Betty Hill: No.

 Dr. Simon: Did you tell him about it?...About being there and being examined?

 Betty Hill: No.

 Dr. Simon: Are you sure?

 Betty Hill: Uh-huh.

 Dr. Simon: And he didn't tell you about his experience?

 Betty Hill: No.

 Dr. Simon: At no time, the two of you just got into the car and didn't say anything about being up in the object?  You must have discussed it.

 Betty Hill: Well, I said………… we knew it had happened because I said, you know this had never …I said that this is an experience I've never had before…you know this type of thing, and he said, "Yah, that's true. But and I don't know…I didn't ask him like…when he was in the other room.  I didn't ask him what they did to him.  

 Dr. Simon: Well, did you tell him what they did to you?  

 Betty Hill: No.

 Dr. Simon: You didn't tell him that you were in the vehicle?  Because you said his eyes were closed.

 Betty Hill: Yah, but I just had this feeling that he knew what was happening and I think I was just so overwhelmed by it all, and I just had the feeling that he knew what had happened, and we didn't talk about it.  We just said, "Well, there they go.” You know? And are they still around and this type of thing, but I think we wanted to forget about it.  I don't know why we didn't talk about it.  We should have. I mean I was…Oh, I don't know……….

 Dr. Simon: Your memory is sharp now.  Did you at some time tell him about that experience- about being in the vehicle?

 Betty Hill: No.

 Dr. Simon: And he didn't speak to you about being in the vehicle? Are you sure?

 Betty Hill: I can't think of any time he's mentioning it………. being inside of it.

 Dr. Simon: Now, go on.  

 Betty Hill: I'm puzzled now on why we didn't talk about it because you would assume we would.  I mean, I don't understand it myself.  We just well… it’s an amazing experience and that's it.

 Dr. Simon: What experience were you talking about?  You had two experiences you say,………One of having sighted this thing and seen the………windows and people and the other experience was of being in the vehicle. There were two different experiences.

 Betty Hill: Yah, but to me the first one was almost so small. (In comparison) I mean there was…Well actually, all I did was see a……you know……..flying through the air and over in front of the car and all.  The other (The abduction) just was so overwhelming in comparison.  I mean there was………

 Dr. Simon: Why would you keep it a secret from him?

 Betty Hill: Because I wanted to please the leader because he told me to forget about it.  

 Dr. Simon: You wanted to please the leader?

 Betty Hill: He told me to forget about it.  I mean this had been their decision.

 Dr. Simon: Why did you want to please the leader so much?

 Betty Hill: I don't know.

 Dr. Simon: And then we might wonder, “Why didn't Barney talk about it?”  Do you think that he wanted to please the leader?

 Betty Hill: Maybe, because I'm quite sure that he was……..you know his eyes were shut and all and I think he had some consciousness of what was going on.  

 Dr. Simon: What had they done to him?

 Betty Hill: Well, they had done something that made him keep his eyes shut.  You know and they had to help him along, walking out to the object.  And even when he left, they were guiding him somewhat, but I think he was walking under his own power.  I mean,…………………..(Long Pause)

 Dr. Simon: Yes, go on.

 Betty Hill: I don't know maybe it was……………..Maybe it was the fear to remember it, too.  It was something about the way he said well; "It's better to forget it.” Almost like a threat. And then, I think maybe I wanted to forget it myself.  I don't know.  I was going to say that maybe I wanted to forget it myself and that's why I did, but that sounds like a rationalization…because I don't know if I really did want to forget it.  I just couldn't remember it.  I could remember parts, but I couldn't remember other parts. The………there seems to be the part between the beepings………. (Tape ends) The part that should be forgotten.

 Dr. Simon: Why should it be forgotten?

 Betty Hill: I don't know, but like…we were beeped………. when we were beeped in the beginning, and I don't remember anything.  I remember Barney turning off the road until we saw the men in the road.

 Dr. Simon: How could you see them?  Did they have lights?

 Betty Hill: I could see the shapes, I could see…………..You know when you're driving along at night and there's a group of men?…………. there’s something in the highway?

You know, your headlights are on, and they show up and you can…………. I mean, there they were.  And we couldn't get by, but I don't remember anything from that up until that time, and I don't know how far we rode or anything.  And I……………

 Dr. Simon: Yes.

 Betty Hill: Something must have happened in between that period………. I mean, if it was only looking at the scenery, riding along or talking.

 Dr. Simon: Did you stop for a sleep?

 Betty Hill: To sleep?  No. I mean I think I'm…………..I don't have any knowledge of what happened…………. Until I saw the men in the road.  And then all this happened and then I do, I know what happened after we saw the men, I know and then the beeping again.  I know I wanted to forget about it too.

 Dr. Simon: You wanted to remember, and you wanted to forget.

 Betty Hill: Yup.

 Dr. Simon: When Barney had gone out into the road…I think he went after you…didn't he to take Delsey out? (* Dr. Simon is referring to the first stop near Twin Mountain and confusing it with the stop south of Indian Head.)

 Betty Hill: He took Delsey out.

 Dr. Simon: Did you know that he had gone off to urinate or anything like that?

 Betty Hill: No.

 Dr. Simon: He was gone a little while and you were worried, weren't you?

 Betty Hill: In the beginning when we stopped to take Delsey?

 Dr. Simon: Um-hum.

 Betty Hill: No because I was watching the side of the ………….

 Dr. Simon: Didn't you want to cry out, "What are you doing down the road?  Come back Barney." 

 Betty Hill: When he had Delsey out?  (*Betty is confused by Dr. Simon’s inaccurate recall.)

 Dr. Simon: Well, at some time there……. He seemed to be walking away from you.

 Betty Hill: Oh, oh that was when the object was over us.  Now, this is when Barney was walking away from the car towards it. This is when I was thinking he was so stupid, he wouldn't come back.  I was getting worried, yes. (*This was at the close encounter field in Lincoln.)

 Dr. Simon: You didn't go to sleep then while he was out there?

 Betty Hill: No.  (*The car was straddling the center line and Betty was watching for oncoming vehicles.)

 Dr. Simon: All right now, the next morning you wished you had a Geiger counter. What happened then?

 Betty Hill: The next morning when we get up and …………let's see, we had breakfast.  Dot and Henry, who rent the upstairs apartment, came in and they had suggested that we take…………..We didn't have a movie camera, and they did, and they suggested, when we left, that we take their camera.  And well, we decided not to bother with it.  So, Barney said something about well, maybe it would have been a good idea if we had taken their movie camera.  And I'm not sure just what he said to Henry…something about we had seen a strange object in the sky, and if he had the movie camera, maybe he could have taken some pictures.  And then Dot had a………. oh, I said to Dot I said, "Yah, you know he saw a flying saucer and he doesn't want to admit it.  And if he had pictures, he'd have proof of it………something on this idea, I think.  And ah, Dot, ah…I mean she didn't think…..I mean, she…I guess…well, in talking with Dot.  She, herself has a belief in these strange flying objects and she was somewhat interested.  And we told her that we had seen one, something in the sky………..something in the sky bouncing around and that it had followed us for a while, and I think that's all we said.  That's all she knows to my knowledge.  And then, Barney and I kept saying that we weren't going to talk about it; that we were going to forget about it.  But I couldn't.  I couldn't stop thinking about it for a second. It was on my mind constantly.  So, I thought that I've got to talk about this a little bit, so I decided to call my sister, Janet.  And I called Janet and Buz (*police officer) was at her house, and she said that we should report it to Pease Air Force Base.  And I said, “No, I didn't want to do that.”  And then she said that maybe we should check some things out first.  And she said, “Hang up and let me call the man next door.  He's a physicist.”

 Dr. Simon: Did you tell her about being in the object?

 Betty Hill: No. I just told her about how it followed us and……..swung around in front of us.  I did tell her about the lights and the fins, and oh, about the beeping. Well, with Dot, I just told her that it followed us.  I didn't tell her about the beeping at that time.  I think maybe it would depend somewhat on the person I was talking with.  And so, Janet called back and said that the physicist who lives next door had said that I should take a compass and go out around the spot where the beeping was heard and to see what would happen.

 Dr. Simon: The spot where the beeping was heard?  What do you mean by that? 

 Betty Hill: The area…the spot…you know.

 Dr. Simon: You mean you heard it on some part of your car?

 Betty Hill: Yes, on the trunk of the car.

 Dr. Simon: On the trunk of the car…

 Betty Hill: Yah. So, Janet……………..

 Dr. Simon: You mean as if it was hitting the trunk? Or coming from it?

 Betty Hill: Yah.  It sounded like it was vibrating from the trunk of the car.

 Dr. Simon: Or coming from it?

 Betty Hill: No, it was hitting……..you know it sounded as if it was vibrating from the trunk of the car. So, Janet said to get a compass and go out around the trunk of the car and see what happens and call her back and let her know.  So, I did. Oh, I looked for the compass on top of the TV and it wasn't there.  So, Barney was sitting in the kitchen, and I went out and I said, "Where's the compass?  I can't find it."  So, he said, "Well, I put it in the drawer.”  And I was getting very upset.  I wanted to hurry up and get out there and I said, "What drawer?"  And he said, "I don't know.  Find it."  And (laughs) I was getting angry with Barney, and I said, "Thanks, you're a great help."  And he said, "Well, you don't need the damn compass anyway."  And so, I said, "Well, that's your viewpoint. You can keep your viewpoint.  Give me the compass."  And he put it, I don't know, I think it was in the drawer, and he took it out and set it up.  Anyway, I got the comp……………., finally after looking around it seems like a long period of time, but of course it wasn't.  It just was because I was impatient to get out there, and I got the compass, and I went running outdoors. And it had been raining that day and the car was all wet, still wet and I thought………. Well, I started on the side of the car to see what would happen and kept going closer and closer to the trunk. And then it was when I started to go to the trunk with the compass that I noticed the shiny spots on the trunk, that there were these very, very shiny spots.  The whole cluster of them about the side of I don't know, half dollars or silver dollars…something like that.  And there must have been twelve or eighteen………oh, there were several…over a dozen I would say, all around in this spot and very shiny.  And when I just got the compass anywhere near them the compass just kept spinning around and around and around.  And at this I panicked.  I got more upset at this one spot than I did at all…And I ran back in the house, and I told Barney to go out and take the compass, and go around the trunk of the car, and there were spots on the car…to go out and look at them.  And he kept saying, oh it was only my imagination.  Forget about it.  And I kept insisting that he go out, and the more he refused to go out, the more upset I became.  And so, Dot came in and said, "What's the matter?"  And I said, "There are some spots out on the trunk of my car, and I want Barney to go out and look at them and he won't go."  So, Dot said, "Well, that's all right.  I'll go."  So, she went out and then Henry came down the stairs and saw Dot out there and he went out.  So then, Barney said, "Where'd Dot go?"  And I said, "She's gone out to look at the spots on the car."  So, then he said, "Well, I might as well go out."  So, he picked up the compass and he went out. And they were all out checking the car, going all over it with the compass and all, and I called Janet.  And I told Janet what had happened.

 Dr. Simon: Who's Janet?

 Betty Hill: My sister.

 Dr. Simon: Your sister.

 Betty Hill: Yah.  And I told her about the spots and how the compass behaved, and so this is when she said, "Well look.  Buz is here and you'd better call Pease Air Force Base and tell them about this.  And I said, "Well, I wouldn't know where to call.  I wouldn't know who to ask for."  And she said, "Well, call the air police.  If that isn't right, they'll put you, you know, give you the right number."  Buz had said that…………..He had been a police chief the year before and he said that they had instructions that if anybody reported a strange object in the sky, that they were to report it to Pease Air Force Base.  So, Janet said that she'd probably be down that weekend some time…To keep cool.  (Laughs) And Barney came in while I was talking to her on the phone, and uh, I had just told Janet about how the compass behaved and uh, so Barney came in and I………while I was still on the phone with Janet, I asked……….I said to him, "How did the compass behave with you?"  And he said, "Oh, just like any compass.  It was, you know, it jumped around when he got near the battery and when he got near the tire and the trunk and things like that. And I said, "Well, why would it jump around there."  I mean I could see maybe the battery, but why would the tire and the trunk make it jump around?  And he said, "Oh I don't know……..Probably something to do with the metal.  And uh, he said, "Oh, it acted perfectly all right to me." (*Barney is denying that the compass reacted to the spots by spinning and spinning.  However, he told Dr. Simon that he witnessed this reaction.  It was typical of Barney to disagree with Betty.  It seemed to be a game that he played with her.) And I said, "Well, it couldn't have."  He was just trying to deny it.  I don't know why he was doing it. So, I told Janet that I'd see her later, and since Barney was insisting that the compass was working perfectly all right…………..And Dot and Henry were just standing there looking at him.  They weren't saying anything.  So, I said, "Well, come on Barney.  I'll go out with you again because I want to check (to see) if the compass worked okay for you.  And it doesn't for me…I want to know why.  And he wouldn't go.  He said, “No, forget it.  If you keep talking about that compass much more I'll smash it.” And I said, "If you do, I'll go out and buy a better one."  And so, he wouldn't go back out, and so I just put the compass down and didn’t say any more about it.  But a little bit later on I was going all over the house.  I was going all around the TV and radios and the lights and all to see how the compass would react when he wasn't looking.  And it wasn't behaving the same way……………Because the………and I mean everything he would say, or I would say…………. I mean everything that I would say…he would deny it……………Like the compass.  

 Dr. Simon: What about the silver spots? (*They were not silver.)

 Betty Hill: Oh, he said, probably something had dropped on it somewhere.

 Dr. Simon: Could it have been splashing from the rain?

 Betty Hill: No, because the car was all wet and not only that, they stayed for a long time.

 Dr. Simon: Did you try to wipe them away?

 Betty Hill: Ah yup, I wash my car every fall………. every fall I always…I usually do it myself. I give my car, or I did then, a good scrubbing and I would simonize it.

 Dr. Simon: And what did these spots look like?  Were they silver or were they the color of your car or what?

 Betty Hill: They were clear.  It was like a lacquer put on over the color, and even when I waxed the car, the spots still were shinier. 

 Dr. Simon: Um-huh. Did they eventually go away? 

 Betty Hill: Yes.  During the winter they gradually went away.

 Dr. Simon:  And with your compass…did you ever observe that again?

 Betty Hill:  No.  I don’t think I did.  Not later.

 Dr. Simon: Did you eventually have anybody out from Pease Air Force Base?  

 Betty Hill: Ah, well Barney ……………..We talked about it, I guess that we should call Pease Air Force Base.  Buz says we should call Pease Air Force Base.  Barney kept saying, "Forget about it.  Forget about it."  And so I kept thinking about it, and so, then you know the spots were on the car and maybe there was……….I kept thinking of, you know, rays and radioactivity and all of these things and I kept thinking, “Well maybe for our own protection we should call them and let them know.”  So, at first Barney said, "No! No! No!"  Then I said, "Well, maybe for our own protection, you know I don't know anything about radioactivity, but if there is any on the car, maybe it should be checked out."  So finally, he said, "Well, all right, if you want to call Pease Air Force Base go ahead but leave me out of it."  So, I said, "Okay, I'll do that."  So, I called the base.  I called the air police.  I talked,………. I think, I said,…………….. I called up and I said I wanted to report an unidentified flying object. And the fellow said, "What?!"

(Betty laughs) And he said, "Hold the line."  And then I think I went…………..I don't know how many people I went through until I got to this, ah, you know, well………No, “Hello or my name is…” or anything like this…………"Would you care to give me the information please?"  So, I gave them some of the information.  I told him how it followed us and the flight and the red lights on the sides and the fins came out.  And he said, "Well did you see the fins come out?"  And I said, "Well no.  My husband did."  "Well, is he there?" (*Betty saw the red lights.  However, the fins slid out from the sides of the craft when Barney was in the field and Betty was watching the highway for oncoming traffic.)

 "Yuh."  

 "Well then, may I speak to him?"  

So then, (I said) "Barney, he wants to talk with you."  So, Barney is okay, he wasn't mad about it.  Barney talked with him and then he said that they'd probably get in touch with us again.  And…they did.  A Major…let me think… there was…a Major Henderson called back and said that he wanted us to tell him just what had happened.  And we gave him some of the information, and then he called back the next day and said that he was………………. I guess there were two telephone (calls).  I've forgotten.  He called; Oh, he called back and said he wanted more information.  He'd been up all night he said, “Working on it.”, and he wanted more information.  Oh, and that the information………..the telephone call was being monitored.  And he talked with Barney, and he talked with me.  And he had, uh, …………. while he was talking with me his…..his whole attitude was one of a skeptic.  And we talked about it coming around in front of the car, and Barney told us about the lights on the fins going out.  And he said to me very sarcastically, "How big was this, about the size of a dime?"  And uh, it made me very angry, and I said, "No, it's not the size of a dime." And I handed the phone back to Barney.  I refused……I didn't want to talk with him anymore.  So, I figured well, this is enough of this, if this is his attitude, you know, we were told we were supposed to report it and we've done it.  So, this is it.  And so, that was it. We hung up.

 Dr. Simon: They didn't come out to see it then? 

 Betty Hill: No, they didn't.  I thought they would have.

 Dr. Simon: Who sent NICAP out?

 Betty Hill: Uh, well, I was still thinking about radioactivity and cosmic rays, and this is a thing that I had on my mind.  I don't know why.  And I kept thinking, well, I didn't know if we were in danger or not.  And I kept thinking well, you know…….and uh, so I decided that I would go down to the library and see if I could find any books down there. 

And so, I did, and I found one …The UFO or I don’t know……. Flying Saucers are Real, I think is the name of it, by this Donald Keyhoe. And I read the book, and it seemed to be pretty logical to me and then in the back of the book it said if you have any information about a sighting or any knowledge about these things, please write to such and such an address.  

 Dr. Simon: That was the one in Washington. 

 Betty Hill: Yah, so I didn't know it was NICAP at the time.  And so, I sat down, and I wrote, and I said that we had had a sighting, and I gave a little…I gave some information about it………. Well, I gave some, but I said that I was interested in finding out more about these things.  I mean this was my objective.  Not to…It wasn't so much telling them about it, but what I could find out about it.  

 Dr. Simon: Did this book give any examples of somebody being taken on the vehicle?

 Betty Hill: No.

 Dr. Simon: All right.  Go on.

 Betty Hill: And uh, so I wrote and then I got a letter back from this Major Keyhoe and the same day I got the letter, I got the telephone call from Walter Webb, who wanted to know if he could come up and talk with us about our sighting.  And he did.

 Dr. Simon: Did he see the spots?

 Betty Hill: No, I don't think he did.

 Dr. Simon: Did he ask to see them? Or were they gone or…………?

 Betty Hill: No, they were still there, but I don't think he…………I don't think I thought to show them to him.  

 Dr. Simon: You didn't think to show them to him.

 Betty Hill: No.

 Dr. Simon: Did you tell him about the compass needle?

 Betty Hill: Yuh.

 Dr. Simon: Then, did he go out and try it?

 Betty Hill: I'm not sure, no.  Wait a minute. I don't… I told him that the compass………. I think I did tell him that the compass was sort of erratic, very erratic in fact, around the car.   And he said, well, he didn't know about these things himself.  

 Dr. Simon: All right.  We'll stop there.  You will not remember anything of what we have talked about this time or the last time until I ask you to.  You will not remember anything we talked about this time or the last time until I ask you to.  But you will be comfortable and relaxed.  It will not trouble you and it will not cause you to have any anxiety or fear or dreams or nightmares.  It will not bother you at all.  You will not remember it again until I ask you to.  You will not remember it again until I ask you to.  And then you will be comfortable and relaxed, no pains, no aches no anxiety.  And you will come back a week from today.  Whenever I say, "Trance Betty", you will go into a deep trance at once and obey all of my commands.  You may wake now.  

 Betty Hill: Woo, huh. (Wakes up)

 Dr. Simon: What are you wooing about?

 Betty Hill: Hum? (Laughs) (Unintelligible response)

 Dr. Simon: How do you feel?  

 Betty Hill: All right.

 Dr. Simon: What's been going on?

 Betty Hill: (Long pause) …………. (Laughing) I don't know.  My mind is a blank.

 Dr. Simon: That's all right.  Don't worry about it.

 Betty Hill: (Continues to laugh)

 Dr. Simon: When I want you to, you will remember it. All right then that’s fine.   

Hypnosis Session 5

Barney Hill

March 14, 1964

© Kathleen Marden 2023

All photo and textual rights reserved under the Pan-American and International Copyright Conventions. 

No part of this may be copied or published.

Dr. Simon questions Barney about the behavior of the men in the road at the capture site, his journey to the craft, his physical exam and return to the car. He attempts to determine what Barney knows about Betty’s abduction.   

Hypnosis session begins:

Dr. Simon: Now Barney, I'll put you into a trance now.  You're in a deep, deep, deep sleep. I want to review with you a few points of your experience when you apparently, or felt that you were taken aboard this unidentified object.  You are back now.  You are comfortable and relaxed, but you are back…back where you were when you saw the men on the road. Tell me about these men. 

Barney Hill: They were coming down the road and waving for me. 

Dr. Simon: Waving for you? 

Barney Hill: Yes. Their hands were not up, but down in a motion that I know indicated for me to stop.  

Dr. Simon: Was there a vehicle there? 

Barney Hill: No, there was no vehicle. 

Dr. Simon: What light was there? Your headlights or………….? 

Barney Hill: It was just an orange light. 

Dr. Simon: An orange light. 

Barney Hill: And I could see this orange glow……..And I started to put………to get out of my car and put one foot on the ground………And two men were standing beside me helping me out………..And I felt very relaxed, yet frightened. 

Dr. Simon: Did they identify themselves in any way? 

Barney Hill: No, they didn't say anything. 

Dr. Simon: Did they say what they wanted? 

Barney Hill: They didn't say anything.  And I knew I was walking or moving down the road from the position of where my car was parked. And…I could see the ramp that I went up and I closed my eyes……… 

Dr. Simon: Where was this ramp going? 

Barney Hill: To a doorway. 

Dr. Simon: A doorway to what? 

Barney Hill: Of a very funny shaped…. like a doorway into a very strange shaped looking thing…craft.  And I stepped inside, and I heard the voice that sounded just like the voice I heard on the highway back at Indian Head, telling me no harm would come to me, and keep my eyes closed. 

Dr. Simon: You mean when you thought the leader or somebody in the vehicle was speaking to you? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: That was the voice you thought you heard? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: You didn't actually hear it that time. 

Barney Hill: That is what was……..I couldn’t understand. 

Dr. Simon: I see.  You mean as if it was transmitted to you in some way? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Go on. 

Barney Hill: And I went down this corridor just a few steps and into another door. 

Dr. Simon: They were leading you? 

Barney Hill: They were holding me.  

Dr. Simon: They were holding you. 

Barney Hill: On both sides, and when I went in, I thought my foot stumbled over a rise right at the base of the door. 

Dr. Simon: Was Betty around? 

Barney Hill: No, Betty wasn't with me.  And I saw this table and knew that I would have to go over to it. 

Dr. Simon: How did you know that? 

Barney Hill: I was carried……. walked over toward it and I just knew I was to get on the table. 

Dr. Simon: What did this table look like?  Was it an operating table or examining table?  You've seen these in doctor's offices in places. 

Barney Hill: It looked like an operating table.  

Dr. Simon: An operating table.  What would be the difference between an operating table and an examining table? 

Barney Hill: Or an examining table……. I don't know.  I just knew that I could be supported fully on it, and it was very plain………. Nothing elaborate.  Just that I could lie on it and my feet extended out from the bottom of it………overlapped it, from the position I was laying in.  And I felt my shoes being removed, and my pants being opened, and I could hear a humming like sound that they seemed to be making.  I was very afraid to open my eyes.  I had been told not to open my eyes and it would be over with quickly, and I could be on my way.  So, I could feel them turning me over and putting something in my rectum. 

Dr Simon: Did they take your pants off? 

Barney Hill: They pulled them all the way down to where my legs were. 

Dr. Simon: And they put something in your rectum?  

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Could you tell what that was? 

Barney Hill: No, it was not painful. 

Dr. Simon: Was it something like a needle or a tube or…………? 

Barney Hill: It was like a tube. 

Dr. Simon: Like a tube? 

Barney Hill: Yes.  It was about the size of a cigar, and I thought it was just a little larger than a pencil and I felt it go in very easily and then, it was withdrawn.  They looked at my back and I could feel them touching my skin right down my back as if they were counting my spinal column.  And I felt something touch right at the base of my spine like a finger pushing………a single finger. 

Dr. Simon: Did anyone speak at any time? 

Barney Hill: I could only hear this mum,…mum,……. mum, mum, mum, mum, mum, mum,……..mum (Rapid humming) type sound, and then I was turned over, and again, I was looked at and my mouth was opened, and I could feel two fingers pulling it back.  And then I heard as if some more men came in, and I could feel them rustling around on the left side of the table I was laying on, and something scratched very lightly like a stick against my left arm.  And these men left, and I was left with what I thought were three men that…………the two that had brought me in and the other one that seemed to follow these two men that……I could tell that there were more than one person in the room.  But only one man seemed to be moving around my body all the time.  My pants were pulled back up and I reached up and tightened my belt and zippered up my zipper.  And my shoes were put on and I stepped down, and I think I felt very good because I knew it was over.  And again, I was led to the door where my feet kicked against this thing at the bottom of the door, like a high door jam, and I stepped over it and went back toward the ramp.  And I went down and opened my eyes and kept walking.  And I saw my car and the lights were out and it was sitting down the road…very dark.  And I couldn't understand…I had not cut out the lights, and I opened the door, and felt for Delsey.  And got in and I sat on my gun, and I took it…removed it from the seat, and put it down on the floor.  And Betty was coming down the road and she came around and opened the door. 

Dr. Simon: Was she alone? 

Barney Hill: She was alone, and she was grinning and I thought at that time she must have gone to the bathroom in the woods……… 

Dr. Simon: The way you had done before? 

Barney Hill: Yes.  

Dr. Simon: The time you left your fly open.  Is that right? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: All right.  Go on. 

Barney Hill: And she got into the car and said, "Well, no one will believe this." Or I might have said it, because I said, "No, no one will…this is so ridiculous, no one will believe it."  

Dr. Simon: What were you referring to? 

Barney Hill: I was thinking about what had happened………that we were sitting there looking down the highway and I could see this glow get brighter, and we said, "Oh my God, not again."  And away it went, and then, I put on the lights and started the car up and drove silently down the road, and I thought I must have driven twenty miles, and I came back to Route 3. 

Dr. Simon: What did you say to Betty? 

Barney Hill: Betty said to me, "Well, do you believe in flying saucers?" and I said, "Oh Betty, don't be ridiculous." 

Dr. Simon: Did you tell her about your experience in this vehicle? 

Barney Hill: I had forgotten my experience. 

Dr. Simon: You had forgotten it?  Did she tell you about her experience? 

Barney Hill: No, she did not. 

Dr. Simon: And neither of you spoke about your experiences in the vehicle? 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: Why not? 

Barney Hill: I didn't remember it. 

Dr. Simon: I see.  It's just that your memory had been wiped out.  Do you think that she had been in the vehicle? 

Barney Hill: I didn't know. 

Dr. Simon: And you don't know today? 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: I see.  All right then, we'll stop there.  You will forget everything we have discussed until I ask you to recall it again.  You will be comfortable and relaxed- No pains, no aches, no anxiety.  You will not think of it or speak of it until I ask you to. Whenever I say, "Trance Barney." you will go into a deep trance and carry out all of my commands.   

Hypnosis Session 6

Barney Hill

March 21, 1964

© Kathleen Marden 2023

All photo and textual rights reserved under the Pan-American and International Copyright Conventions. 

No part of this may be copied or published. 

This hypnosis session provides perhaps the most important explanation of what Barney remembers as true and real. He has overcome his memory distorting trauma and has a clear understanding of what occurred. However, Dr. Simon does not believe him. 

Under deep trance hypnosis Dr. Simon repeatedly attempts to convince Barney that the UFO abduction is nothing more than a fabrication suggested to him by Betty or others. He informs Dr. Simon of the specific details that he has overheard Betty telling Walter Webb and friends. Barney remains unshakable. He is steadfast and logically consistent in his account of the UFO experience.

 Dr. Simon dictates: Mr. and Mrs. Hill are expected this morning at 8:00. The possibility that the explanation of the duel stories lies in a dream experience of the one conveyed in some way to the other will be explored. The fact that Mrs. Hill's story of her abduction contains all of the data in Mr. Hill's story and his contains none of hers, suggests that this may have been an experience on her part which was conveyed to him in some manner. There is a suggestion in her story that she was afflicted with nightmares, and the repetition of a nightmare containing some elements of the story just prior to her last session, again suggests the possibility that she had a dream experience, which was conveyed in some way to Mr. Hill, who seems to be the more suggestible of the two. This will be explored separately and perhaps together. It is also planned to begin bringing the experiences into consciousness. (*Dr. Simon was incorrect regarding the dream hypothesis. However, he seems to be desperately seeking a prosaic explanation for the Hills’ UFO abduction. Betty’s abduction account did not contain all the data in Barney’s story. Nor did Barney know all the information in Betty’s dreams.)

 Conscious Interview: 

Barney Hill: I didn't want to forget to tell you that I have never before ….. on three nights this week I dreamed of UFOs, and I have never done that before. Last Sunday night, Tuesday and Wednesday night and there seems to be some similarity to the dream, as if it is some sort of a recurrent type of thing. There isn't much to it, but the type of dream is that I always am standing there looking at a UFO that is on the ground with light coming from it, and Betty is screeching and screaming. And this seems to be the type of dream. I've had the same one this past Sunday night, and Tuesday, and Wednesday and I have never dreamed of UFOs before in my life.

 Dr. Simon: When you first came to me, one of your difficulties as I recall it, and correct me if I misstate this, you were pretty much upset about this whole experience. This had something to do with your going into treatment with Dr. Stevens. Is that right? 

Barney Hill: Uh, it came out during…….. 

Dr. Simon: It came out? You went to Dr. Stevens for what reason? 

Barney Hill: Because just about this time, well as the result of a former marriage I have two sons and occasionally I began becoming depressed or despondent thinking about them. And I happened to mention sort of haphazardly about Betty and I seeing a UFO. 

Dr. Simon: Well now, as I was saying you had gone to Dr. Stevens for this problem and the experience with the UFO came out as a part of your therapy and began to take what you deemed of apparent significance and importance. And Dr. Stevens felt that we should explore this. 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: But I remember that also Betty had been troubled with dreams and nightmares. 

Barney Hill: Yes, she had. 

Dr. Simon: In which she had some feelings that you might have been kidnapped. 

Barney Hill: Yes, she had. 

Dr. Simon: And she told you about these things. 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Did you ever witness any of her nightmares? 

Barney Hill: No, I had not. 

Dr. Simon: You were always asleep? 

Barney Hill: Yes. (*For the first five dreams in 1961, he was not asleep. He was working on the graveyard shift at the South Boston Postal Annex. However, he was employed by the Portsmouth, NH, US Post Office during her three recent dreams. )

Dr. Simon: And um now, you two sleep in a double bed? 

Barney Hill: Yes, we sleep together in a double bed. 

Dr. Simon: At least a bed that accommodates the two of you? And uh, does Betty talk in her sleep? 

Barney Hill: No, she doesn't. 

Dr. Simon: As far as you know, she doesn't. 

Barney Hill: To my knowledge she doesn't. 

Dr. Simon: She does not. 

Barney Hill: Or that when I am awake sometimes and she is asleep, I've never heard her. 

Dr. Simon: You've never heard her talk in her sleep? 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: Now when she described these dreams how much did she tell you about them? What did she tell you that she had dreamed? 

Barney Hill: She would tell me that somehow she is wondering if there is any reference or relationship to her dreams and to those missing minutes up there in the White Mountains from Indian Head to Ashland. (*She did not tell him most of the content of her dreams. However, he overheard some of the content when he was in a different room and she explained this to NICAP Investigator Walter Webb, and when she talked of it to a few friends, but Barney dismissed them as being only dreams, not reality.) 

Dr. Simon: Now about these minutes…..This was planned out only by these…Mr. Hohmann is it? 

Barney Hill: And Mr. Jackson…Mr. Hohmann and Mr. Jackson. (*IBM science writer and senior engineer. Also NICAP investigators.) 

Dr. Simon: That is, you were not aware…It did take you longer on the trip, but then you had a lot of experiences on the trip. You hadn't been aware that the trip took an excessively long time? 

Barney Hill: No, but I… (*He was aware of the fact that he had arrived home later than expected.) 

Dr. Simon: That this could be accounted for by these experiences. Isn't that right? 

Barney Hill: That's right. 

Dr. Simon: Only when he pointed that out does seem to be the case? 

Barney Hill: Yes, because he thought it was interesting that we said we had heard a beeping sound at Indian Head, and then, we picked up the story by saying that then we reached Ashland we heard this beeping sound again. And he said, "Well, what happened in between the period of time from Ashland, ah from Indian Head to Ashland, which is approximately thirty five miles?"  And uh, I just couldn't seem to recall. I just thought, well, I probably was driving my car. Then I realized that I had been driving for a period of time with no knowledge of passing anything or going down this particular highway in this section. (*Notice that he assumes he was driving, but it is only an assumption because he does not recall driving.) 

Dr. Simon: Did you meet anyone at all, pass any cars…meet any people? Nothing of that line happened there. 

Barney Hill: Nothing. 

Dr. Simon: So, you were not particularly impressed by this lapse in time? 

Barney Hill: No, I wasn't. 

Dr. Simon: Oh, I see, and Betty wasn't. (Dr. Simon is incorrect. Betty informed Donald Keyhoe in a letter to NICAP Headquarters dated September 26, 1961, that she was considering hypnosis for Barney due to his fear and mental block after he observed figures dressed in black through binoculars when he was looking at the craft.) 

Hypnosis Begins. 

Dr. Simon: All right. Trance Barney. You're going deeper and deeper and deeper asleep. You're comfortable and relaxed. You will feel no fear and no anxiety, but you will be comfortable and relaxed in a very deep, deep trance, deep asleep, far asleep. Deep asleep just as before. And now you will recall fully all of the experiences that we have talked about in this office…all of them, and all of your feelings, but they will not upset you anymore. You will recall all of your feelings, your experiences, and those things that you think may have been experiences. I want to go back and talk about the experiences that you had of being stopped in the road by some men in dark clothes. You described them as looking like pea jackets or some kind of a uniform.

 Is that right? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Now, how did you learn about this experience? You didn't really have it did you? (*Dr. Simon attempts to suggest to Barney that his own hypothesis is correct. However, Barney disputes this.) 

Barney Hill: Uh, I was hypnotized. 

Dr. Simon: You were hypnotized by whom? 

Barney Hill: By Dr. Simon. 

Dr. Simon: Yes, that's true, but then you told Dr. Simon about these experiences. 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Having happened before…You told him about it… Is that right? 

Barney Hill: Uh… 

Dr. Simon: Somebody told you about this before that, in some way. Who was that? 

Barney Hill: Betty, my wife. 

Dr. Simon: Yuh, and how did she tell you about it?

 Barney Hill: She would say that she had had a dream, and the dream was that she had been taken aboard a UFO, and that I was also in her dream, and was taken aboard. 

Dr. Simon: Yuh, but you told me that she didn't speak to you about this. How did she tell you this? 

Barney Hill: She would tell me this from usually when someone would ask us about our sighting of a UFO, and then she would mention this. And I just told her it was a dream and nothing to be alarmed about. 

Dr. Simon: Did she tell you all of the details? Can you tell me all of the details of what happened to her? 

Barney Hill: She would tell me a great many of the details of her dreams, but she was not certain of the location where we had stopped, and she would tell me she had gone into this UFO and had talked with the people there on board. And she was told she would forget… In her dreams she would forget about this, and she said…she would tell me that she was determined that she would not forget. That she told these people in this UFO that she would not forget. And this is the way she would tell me of her dreams. And I told her they were only dreams, and that I can't believe whatever these dreams are that she is having, only that she is having nightmares, if they're frightening. And she said, "No, they are not frightening.” (*Betty had five dreams that began about ten days after her UFO event. She was alone in bed and dreamed them moments before she woke up in the morning. When Betty typed a paper explaining her dreams, she wrote that initially they were nightmares. However, over a period of five days the nightmares evolved into dreams.) It is just that she feels that somehow there is some connection between her dreams because she never dreamed of UFOs before. And she would tell me that they had stuck something in her navel causing great pain and that (with) just a wave of the hand, this pain disappeared. And she was not telling this to me, but I would be present while she was telling it to friends of ours or to Walter Webb when we would see him. He would ask us about the UFO sighting that we had had and then I would hear her dreams. But never did she tell this actually to me. 

Dr. Simon: Did she tell you what they did to you? 

Barney Hill: Only that they had come into a room with my teeth, and they were quite startled that her teeth could not come out, and mine could. And this is all she knew about me. 

Dr. Simon: What about them putting something up your rectum that you told me about? 

Barney Hill: No, she never told me that. 

Dr. Simon: Where did you get that idea? 

Barney Hill: I was lying on a table, and I was being turned over and I felt this thing going into my rectum and it did not pain me and it was withdrawn. 

Dr. Simon: Well, when were you lying on a table? 

Barney Hill: September the twentieth I was lying on a table. 

Dr. Simon: But you just told me this was all a dream. 

Barney Hill: This was not my dream. She dreamed, but this is not what she told me was in her dreams. This was not her dream. I never knew this happened and I am very puzzled that I could think that this happened, and I never knew that it had happened. 

Dr. Simon: Well now, all of this about your being taken aboard the UFO and being examined and having your teeth taken and all of the examination… this was all told to you by Betty, wasn't it?  (*Through the use of hypnotic suggestion, Dr. Simon attempts to persuade Barney that this was a dream.) 

Barney Hill: No, Betty never told me…only about my teeth. 

Dr. Simon: Only about your teeth? Well, how did you get the other information? 

Barney Hill: I was hypnotized by Dr. Simon. 

Dr. Simon: And he told you all of this? 

Barney Hill: No, he did not tell me this. He made me go back to September 19, when I left Montreal and was going home to Portsmouth and he had me hypnotized, and he kept telling me to go further and further along my trip and tell him what was happening to me each time, as I drove along the highway. And then, I began to see things that I had never seen before. And I knew that I had seen a UFO and my last remembrance of it was when I reached Indian Head, and had gotten out of my car, and walked toward this UFO. And I saw some eyes staring down at me and I was coming closer and closer to this UFO, and I could not believe it was there. And yet, I could not make it go away. And I was compelled to go closer, and I prayed to God to make me…… (*Becomes upset) 

Dr. Simon: It won't trouble you now. Just go ahead. 

Barney Hill: And I prayed that I could get away and run back to the car. And I did and the eyes kept following me back to my car and I felt very, very upset. And I said, "Betty, they're going to capture us." And I looked out the window and I saw it as it swung around to the rear of my car. And then I was driving down the highway and Betty was looking out her window and she said, "I don't see it. I don't see it." And I said, "It is there. It is right above us, Betty. Look."  And I was hurrying to get away and I kept driving and driving and driving, and I made a turn, and I never knew this. And I don't know why I had to make that turn, and I was lost, and I saw that I was in a strange area on the highway that I had never been before, and I was being stopped, and I was very uncomfortable. But somehow the eyes were telling me that I should be calm and that I would not be harmed, and to relax. And I saw these men coming down toward me and… 

Dr. Simon: Did you really see men? You told me that there not been a stop…that no one had been on the road. Or did you think that there were men there? (*Again, Dr. Simon attempts to suggest to Barney that he had not seen men in the road. He seems unaware of the fact that Barney consciously recalled the roadblock three months prior to his first hypnotic regression. Dr. Simon seems unaware of the Barney’s conscious, continuous memory of a close encounter with a UFO and his observation of the humanoid creatures on the craft, which was part of his conscious recall and is documented in formal reports on 9/26/1961 and again on 10/26/1961.) 

Barney Hill: They were there. I did not think this. I never knew this because I was hypnotized by Dr. Simon and he told me that I would remember, and I remembered…. 

Dr. Simon: But you could remember what you felt as well as what might have happened. Didn't you just feel this? Didn't you dream it? 

Barney Hill: No, I did not dream this. 

Dr. Simon: There were men down the road that actually stopped you? 

Barney Hill: (*Emphatically) Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Well, go on from there. 

Barney Hill: Well, I started to get out of my car, and I felt myself being supported by two men, and my eyes were closed, and I felt I should be very afraid but… 

Dr. Simon: Now, just a minute. Didn't Betty tell you this while you were asleep? 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: She didn't talk to you in your sleep? 

Barney Hill: No, Betty never told me this. 

Dr. Simon: Well couldn't she have told you this…talked to you in your sleep? 

Barney Hill: She had never told me this. I had never heard her tell me this. Betty told me that we were inside a UFO in her dreams… 

Dr. Simon: Yes, and you… 

Barney Hill: And she did not know how we got there. 

Dr. Simon: Yes, but didn't she tell you that you were also inside, and they brought her your teeth? 

Barney Hill: Yes, she told me they had brought my teeth to her. 

Dr. Simon: So, she told you everything that you experienced, including being stopped by the men? 

Barney Hill: No, she did not tell me about being stopped by the men. She did not have this in her dreams. This was only when I was hypnotized. 

Dr. Simon: Only when you were hypnotized? 

Barney Hill: That I saw this. 

Dr. Simon: How do you account for this happening? Do you think it really happened? 

Barney Hill: It did happen. I don't know what to say. I don't want to remember it. I was told I won't remember it and I don't want to remember it. 

Dr. Simon: Who told you that you wouldn't remember it? 

Barney Hill: I was told in my mind that I would forget that it had happened. 

Dr. Simon: You were told in your mind? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Who told you? 

Barney Hill: I thought it was the man I saw looking down at me when I was looking back at him when I was at Indian Head. And I thought it was him who told me that I should be calm and that I should not be afraid, and that no harm would come to me. And that I would be let alone to go on my way, but I would forget everything, and I would never remember it again. 

Dr. Simon: How do you account for the fact that you know nothing of Betty's experience, and yet, she seems to know everything about yours? (*This is a false accusation.) 

Barney Hill: I was not in the same room as Betty. I don't know where Betty is. I don't know where she is. And I was carried into a room, and I got on a table, and I wanted to be afraid, and yet, I was somehow not afraid enough to run. And I thought it would soon be over if they don't harm me. 

Dr. Simon: Now uh, let's wait just there a minute. You said before… last time or so that you don't know what happened to Betty. But you also said to me that you and Betty never talked about these experiences. So, it seems to me that Betty did tell you a lot about it. She told you about being put on a table. She told you about having something put into her navel. 

Barney Hill: She told me about herself. I did not know what happened to Betty when I was on the highway. I never believed her dreams.  

Dr. Simon: If you never believed her dreams, then why do you believe yours? 

Barney Hill: I never dreamed about UFOs until last Sunday. And I dreamed about a UFO Tuesday night and Wednesday night. And this is the first time in my life I had ever dreamed about a UFO. 

Dr. Simon: You told me sometime ago that you had felt dissociated. What did you mean by that? 

Barney Hill: I felt that I had never known what this feeling felt like, and I thought dissociated was as if I was doing things and my body was moving, and yet all my senses were to do something else. And I had never felt like this before in my life and I felt disassociated. 

Dr. Simon: And then you felt that these men had taken you. 

Barney Hill: I have only experienced that feeling again when I was in your office, and you made a little doggie come into the room and I was hypnotized and I saw a little doggie. 

Dr. Simon: Yes. This was a hallucination then, wasn’t it? 

Barney Hill: That was a hallucination. (*The dog.) 

Dr. Simon: And how about the experience of being kidnapped. Couldn't that have been a hallucination too? You were very frightened. 

Barney Hill: I wish I could think it was a hallucination. 

Dr. Simon: Well, why couldn't it be? 

Barney Hill: I don't know. I was there. I was frightened. (*There was physical and circumstantial evidence.) 

Dr. Simon: You were very frightened weren't you and no harm came to you, so this explains it. (*Dr. Simon starts to talk over Barney's voice in an attempt to convince him that nothing happened to him. He insists that the abduction sequence was suggested to him, and not based on reality.) 

Barney Hill: I was frightened. 

Dr. Simon: And how about Mr. Webb, suggesting to you that something must have happened at this time? 

Barney Hill: Mr. Webb didn't suggest that to me. 

Dr. Simon: Oh, Mr. Jackson and Mr.? 

Barney Hill: Mr. Hohmann. 

Dr. Simon: They suggested it, didn’t they? 

Barney Hill: They did not suggest that something happened to me. They said… 

Dr. Simon: (*Refuses to allow Barney to answer his question.) Well, they said that there was missing time that was not accounted for. 

Barney Hill: They said that during the period from Indian Head to Ashland… what were we doing? And I kept thinking and all I could remember was being out on the highway at Indian Head, and I could never remember, except to run back to my car and drive away. And I did not know what I was doing from Indian Head to Ashland when Mr. Jackson and Mr. Hohmann asked me. 

Dr. Simon: That was the time when you were dissociated. 

Barney Hill: I did not feel dissociated. I just didn't think about it, or I did not feel anything, except I had to have driven, is all I thought that happened. 

Dr. Simon: And you are sure… you feel sure that this actually happened? Do you, or is there some other explanation? 

Barney Hill: I feel very sure it happened. 

Dr. Simon: Did these men speak to you… In the vehicle? 

Barney Hill: Only the one I thought was the leader. 

Dr. Simon: And is he the one you thought was the leader in the spaceship? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: What kind of language did he use? 

Barney Hill: He did not speak with words. I was told what to do by his thoughts making my thoughts understand. And I could hear him, and I could not understand, and yet, I could understand him. And I was told I would not be harmed and that…

Dr. Simon: What was this, a kind of mental telepathy? 

Barney Hill: I am not familiar with mental telepathy. 

Dr. Simon: (*Talks over Barney.) To be able to understand someone else's thoughts or to have your thoughts understood by someone else. 

Barney Hill: I could understand his thoughts. 

Dr. Simon: But he never spoke any words to you? 

Barney Hill: His thoughts came to me like I feel now when you talk to me. And I know you are there, and yet, my eyes are closed, and you ask me questions, and I know you are there. But I don't know where. And this is how he told me that I would not be harmed and that I would be left alone to go as soon as they had taken me into this room. And then I did not see him or hear him anymore, and I was going down a ramp, and I could hear his thoughts telling me I would not remember any of this, because I was not harmed, and I wanted to forget. And he helped me to forget by telling me that this is what I wanted to do. And I did not remember anymore. 

Dr. Simon: You accused Betty of trying to hypnotize you at one time. 

Barney Hill: (*This is one of the most important paragraphs in the hypnosis sessions.) When we were standing on the highway in the forestry section of the White Mountains on Route 3, the first time we stopped (Mt. Cleveland Picnic Area) to get a better look at this light that was moving through the sky and coming toward us. I could see this happening. And I said, "That's a plane." And Betty said, "Look how it is flying."  And I got Delsey out of the car and put her chain on her, and I kept looking up and down the highway because I was afraid of a car coming by and seeing me while I relieved myself. And then went to the trunk of the car and opened it and took out a gun that I had concealed there and put it in my pocket. And then I said, "Give me the binoculars." And I looked and I could see that this thing that I thought was a plane had made a turn to the left, toward Vermont, and kept turning, and started coming right back. And I thought I had only seen this happen when I was in Philadelphia, and I used to be a mail truck driver, and there was a box located near the International Airport. And just where I would stop, I would see planes coming to land with their lights on. And it was a very funny feeling to see this large thing coming to land and I thought of that when I was standing on the highway...that this thing is coming right toward us. And I said, "Come on Betty, let's go."  And I quickly returned to the car, and I said, "Oh Betty, you're trying to make me see something that is not there." And I would slow down and look at her insistence. (She said),"Look what it's doing." And I said, "Forget it, it's just a plane. It's probably some flier or something." And yet, I felt very strange about the whole thing because I could not hear any sound, and I wanted to hear some sound of the motor. And I could not quite understand why it was now following us off to the right, and when we would go around a bend in the road, where it would be obstructed from view, it would appear after we had gone around. And there it was coming around the other side of the mountain. And I began to feel very alarmed and hoped that some traffic, some car, or I could see a state police to come by and say, "Look at that uh…..is following us." But no one came by, and I felt very uncomfortable. 

Dr. Simon: But then you did see some men in the road. 

Barney Hill: Yes. (*Deep sigh) 

Dr. Simon: You wanted to see some men in the road. (*Manipulation in deep trance hypnosis through strong suggestion.) 

Barney Hill: I didn't want to see those men in the road. 

Dr. Simon: Well, when you had this experience and weren't harmed, didn't you feel better? 

Barney Hill: I felt, I felt funny… I could not remember, and yet, I knew something had happened and I was confused that I was off of Route 3. And I was driving back to Route 3, and I just could not understand why I was off Route 3. And Betty said, "Well, do you believe in flying saucers now?" And I said, "Oh, don't be ridiculous Betty, of course not." And we then heard a beep, beep……beep, beep, beep sound on the trunk of the car and I kept quiet after that. 

Dr. Simon: Well, didn't Betty hypnotize you? 

Barney Hill: (*This is one of the most important paragraphs in the hypnosis sessions.) No, Betty didn't hypnotize me. I wanted to think she was doing this to me to make me feel better because I kept seeing that object in the sky. And I finally stopped at Indian Head because it was right there, large and hovering and I could not understand this. So, I knew I had the gun in my pocket, and I said, "I will get out and get a better look." And I opened my car door and tried to brace my arms on the door and on the roof of the car, and the motor was running, and my arms were jiggling, so I stepped away from my car. And when I did, the object, which was to the right of the car on Betty's side, made an arc-like turn, or not a turn, but a swinging motion, over to the left of my side, and I thought, "My God, what is this thing. It's got to be a helicopter to just stay suspended like that, and it’s just not making any sound,” so I started walking across the highway to look at it. And as I walked further away from the car I noticed with my binoculars that there were about eleven men now, I thought, looking down at me, and they suddenly made a turn to what I thought was a panel. And I could see their arms going up and there was one that kept looking down, and I kept going closer. And I could see two red lights coming out from the tip of this thing that did not look like a plane at all, or a helicopter and I could see a long something coming down from the center, and I kept going closer and closer. And I thought, "Oh my God, what is this thing?!” And I felt myself being told to come closer, and I was greatly confused, and I blinked my eyes, and I thought, "This can't be real." And I shook my head and turned it away and looked back and I said, "Oh God, its there. What is this thing?" And I put my hand toward my gun, and I could not put my hand there, and I could not understand why my hands kept going up with the binoculars. And I was told to keep the binoculars up, and keep looking up, and keep coming closer. No harm would come to me. And I opened my hands, and the binoculars fell around my neck, and I ran screaming back to the car that they were going to capture us. And yet, I could not understand what they wanted to capture us for. And I thought I should report this to the police if ever I could find a call box or anything, or a restaurant open. Because this was very unusual for something to do this, and I thought of the military, and I thought since they had on black jack… the one looking at me had on a black jacket he must have been a military officer. And yet I could not quite understand why they were doing what they were doing. And there was no sound coming from this thing. (It was) just up there in the sky. 

Dr. Simon: How big were these men? 

Barney Hill: They didn't seem too big. 

Dr. Simon: Well, what were their features like? Were they like other Americans? 

Barney Hill: I thought that they did not look too strange. They were not unlike people I see, human beings. (*Through binoculars from this distance.) 

Dr. Simon: You conveyed that the leader had Oriental kind of eyes. 

Barney Hill: The eyes kept coming down, but they were not the leader's eyes, and they kept telling me to keep quiet and come closer, and when I ran back to the car, the eyes seemed to still be in my brain. But they were not the leader's eyes, and I could not understand why this glowing thing kept following me down the highway, when I ran back to the car. And it kept following me, yet I knew it wasn't there, and I would blink my eyes and look off to the left and look at Betty… 

Dr. Simon: (Talks over Barney giving him a directive.) You knew it wasn't there. 

Barney Hill: I knew it couldn't be real—something in my head like that. (*The eyes.) 

Dr. Simon: Something in your head? 

Barney Hill: Yes. The eyes….. 

Dr. Simon: Well, was this whole thing in your head then? 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: Why couldn't it be? 

Barney Hill: We sometimes do this. We sometimes try to see if one can sense what the other… It's not too effective.  

Dr. Simon: Do you actually try this, to send each other thoughts? 

Barney Hill: Well, when I was in Philadelphia, she would say that she would want me to call her, and she said that, many times, she would lie there in her room and say, "Call me Barney, call me." and then I would call her. Not that I thought that she had asked me to call, but that I had planned to call. But she would say, "You must have read my thoughts because I was lying here hoping you would call." 

Dr. Simon: Well, could she have planted all of these thoughts in your mind? You said that she had tried to hypnotize you. 

Barney Hill: I knew Betty hadn't hypnotized me. I wanted to think that that object wasn't there and that's why I said, "What are you doing Betty, trying to hypnotize me?"  And since I kept saying it's a plane, I wanted her to say, "Yes, it's a plane" and we'd drive on.

But it kept following us and I did not like that, and I knew that it was very peculiar that a plane would follow a car down the highway, like that. And I had hoped it was not there, and I did not want it to be there, and yet, it stayed and kept going down the highway with us, until I stopped, and it stopped, and it began coming closer as it made a swing over to my side of the car. (* On Route 3 in Lincoln, south of Indian Head.) And I started walking toward it and I knew it was there. It was very huge and very close, and I was very puzzled that it was still there. And then I saw a row of windows and I could see these people looking back at me, and I thought, "My, isn't this the most ridiculous thing."  And I would shake my head and look off in another direction and look back, thinking that if maybe I do this, it really won't be there. And it stayed there, and I just kept going closer toward it, and I was confused that this thing would do that.  And then, I ran back to the car because I knew very strongly that it had planned to capture or grab me out there on the highway. 

Dr. Simon: You said that they had planned to capture you. How did you know that? 

Barney Hill: I saw the thing coming very, very close, and I too, was walking closer and I saw…it was not like a rope, but a long object coming down from the bottom of it. I could see this with my binoculars. 

Dr. Simon: Was it like a ladder? 

Barney Hill: I thought like a ladder, but I didn't know really what it was, except, that something was coming down from it. And the wings that slid out were not like wings from a plane, but very more like a bat type… the military plane bat type of wing. It slid out and… 

Dr. Simon: You mean the wing slid out from the fuselage or the body? 

Barney Hill: It didn't have a fuselage type shape. And the wings began sliding out. The red lights began moving away and I noticed that they were an extension of these wings. And I then was able to break away and run back to my car. 

Dr. Simon: What was the… It wasn't a fuselage shape. What kind of shape was it? 

Barney Hill: It had more of an oval pie plate type of shape. 

Dr. Simon: I see, Betty described it as cigar shaped. 

Barney Hill: Ah, when it was flying in the sky it gave the appearance of a cigar because I thought it was a passenger plane because of the longness of it. But then, it was off at a distance, and only when it came closer, did I notice that what I thought was a straight row of lights on a plane, turned out to be a curved series of lights. 

Dr. Simon: All right now, we'll stop there unless you have anything further. And ah, this will not trouble you and now you may remember these experiences to the extent that they will not trouble you. Do you understand me? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: After I wake you, you may remember whatever doesn't trouble you about that. You will remember that they are not going to trouble you, that they will not harm you; that this is past now. And gradually, gradually as we continue to see each other you will be remembering these things, but they will not cause you any trouble and you will know more and more and more about it as we go along. Is that clear? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: You will have no fear and no anxiety. You'll be comfortable and relaxed, and we will continue to talk about it in this way and the same will be true of Betty. And whenever I say, "Trance Barney," you will go into a trance at once. You'll go into a deep sleep and obey all of my commands. Remember that you will remember these things to the extent that you can remember without being upset. You will not be bothered. It will not hurt you and we will continue to talk about it into the future. I will see you again a week from today. All right? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: All right, you may wake now. (Pause) Well, how do you feel now? 

Barney Hill: I feel fine. I'm puzzled about something…that I can remember being hypnotized. Uh, usually when I come in here, I knew I had been hypnotized, but I wouldn't remember it. And I would look at my watch and two hours would have gone by, and I would think that only about ten minutes had passed. And uh, I can remember things about this today's session that I couldn't remember about any of the other sessions we have had. 

Dr. Simon: What do you remember now? Well, for example? 

Barney Hill: About my UFO sighting that I was talking about and certain things puzzled me that I could not quite understand. Uh, I could never understand …I used to talk with Walter Webb, when he would pay us a visit, and we would talk about our sighting,

… My sighting and Betty's sighting, and I would always talk… I would always come up to the men turning to the panel and I never could seem to go any further than that, but now, I can almost see just what that fellow looked like that was looking down at me. And he was not frightening in a horrible sense like a distorted or inhuman type of creature, he was more … The frightening part was the military precision of a different person who knew what to do, could do it and was willing to carry it out. And when I said that he was going to capture me… I just could remember that, but I couldn't remember why I thought he was going to capture me. 

Dr. Simon: Well, why was he going to capture you? 

Barney Hill: I don’t know why. Why did I think he was going to capture me? 

Dr. Simon: Well, why do you think he was? 

Barney Hill: Well now, I was forced out there and I could never understand what caused me to walk out towards that object, when all of my senses wouldn't do a thing like that. And uh, it's very strange. It's almost unbelievable. 

Dr. Simon: Well, from here on out, as we go along, you are going to become more and more conscious of what has gone on in the hypnosis—what you have remembered. It won't trouble you and you will remember more and more as you get used to it, and nothing troubling from it. 

Barney Hill: Yes, uh (Clears throat) you know Betty and I used to go up to the White Mountains after this sighting. This would have been in the year 1962 and occasionally in 1963 and we would drive around on these different back trails on the mountains, because we could never seem to understand what we were doing off the main highway, because I just couldn't seem to understand why I felt that I was on Route 3. Yet, I wasn't sure that I was on Route 3. But now I know that I turned off the highway. That's… 

Dr. Simon: Now you remember don't you…you and Betty talking about these things-about her dreams? 

Barney Hill: Yes. Betty would mention about her… 

Dr. Simon: Tell me about her dreams that you can remember. 

Barney Hill: Well, no, some of the things that she told me about her dreams, where I was a part of it, was my teeth being taken out, and I said, "Well, what was I doing?" And she said, "Well, you weren't doing anything." Because she really didn't know, other than that the uh, uh… 

Dr. Simon: You didn't stop to rest anytime on this trip did you? 

Barney Hill: Yes, we stopped, we stopped, oh, I would say approximately twenty miles out of Montreal. Then we stopped… 

Dr. Simon: (Talks over Barney) But I mean after the sighting. 

Barney Hill: No, we didn't stop at all. 

Dr. Simon: You didn't stop to take a nap or anything like that? 

Barney Hill: No, we didn't stop. It was just a continuous drive down. I felt in good spirits. I felt in high spirits. I was well rested from the night before, and we had spent a delightful day, and I knew I could drive on from the White Mountains down to Portsmouth. So, I didn't stop. I didn't feel too tired, but that's probably because, you know, Dr. Simon, it's puzzling because vaguely I could remember a red glow in the highway, and I always thought someone was doing something like that… (*Barney motions with his hands just as he did during his breakthrough memory of this in November, 1963.) 

Dr. Simon: You mean like………? 

Barney Hill: Like flagging me down. 

Dr. Simon: You mean a lantern? 

Barney Hill: No, I mean, well, yes, as if a lantern had been in their hands. 

Dr. Simon: It would make a glow wouldn't it? 

Barney Hill: No, but the glow wasn't coming from this object. 

Dr. Simon: I see. From where then? 

Barney Hill: The glow was just a large glow and (Unintelligible due to poor tape quality). 

Dr. Simon: You said there was a large (three-quarters) full moon that night didn't you? 

Barney Hill: Well, I thought about the moon, but that thing was right there on the highway. The thing was right there on the highway. I could never seem to understand. I have looked for that spot and I said, "Now how could the moon be on the highway in that kind of position? And I could never seem to find any terrain up there that fit what I definitely remembered. This thing was sitting there that night, and I kept remembering these men flagging me down, and then, I sort of don't remember… And now I remember. 

Dr. Simon: Um-huh. All right then, we'll continue now, next Saturday. I'll talk to Betty alone now.

Hypnosis Session 7

Betty Hill

March 21, 1964

© Kathleen Marden 2023

All photo and textual rights reserved under the Pan-American and International Copyright Conventions. 

No part of this may be copied or published.

Dr. Simon questions Betty about the differences between her series of nightmares and dreams of abduction and her hypnotic recall of the abduction. He pursues his hypothesis that Betty somehow transferred her dreams to Barney by questioning Betty about Barney’s knowledge of her dream memories. Betty, like Barney, insists that their abduction memories are real, and she is convinced that the bona fide consciously recalled and documented in 1961experience was different from her dreams and contained different information that was not in her dreams. Dr. Simon, however, suspects that Betty’s recovered memories are forgotten parts of her dreams, and not evidence of a separate, real event. Although she is willing to contemplate his hypothesis, it seems implausible to Betty. He suggests that she will now remember the content of her hypnosis sessions that will not upset her too much. 

Hypnosis session begins: 

Dr. Simon: Well, how have things been? 

Betty Hill: Fine. 

Dr. Simon: Have you had any more dreams? 

Betty Hill: No, I haven't. 

Dr. Simon: And no nightmares? 

Betty Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: Is there anything you want to speak about or ask me? 

Betty Hill: Yuh, Barney gave you the papers from Mr. Hohmann. 

Dr. Simon: Yuh, I'm going to borrow those for a while and look it over in some detail. 

Betty Hill: It was the first report on some research work that Hohmann and Jackson…(did). (*Dr. Simon talks over Betty.) 

Dr. Simon: And the back part, too. All right, are you comfortable? 

Betty Hill: Um-hum. 

Dr. Simon: Relax. Trance, Betty. Deeper and deeper, deeper, and deeper asleep. Just totally relax. No pains, no aches, no anxiety…In a deep, deep sleep. And now you will sink in deeper and deeper…….no pains, no anxiety. You will remember now all of the things that we have talked about. We will enter your sessions together. They will not harm you and you will not be upset. You will recall all of the details and all of your feelings. They will not upset you. Now, I won't ask you about your experiences when you thought that you were taken onboard this flying object. When you sighted this thing before the last experience, Barney saw men in the object with the binoculars at the time of the sighting. Did you see any men? 

Betty Hill: This is when he got out and walked towards it? (at the close encounter field in Lincoln, NH) 

Dr. Simon: Yes. 

Betty Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: You never saw any men in the object? 

Betty Hill: No, I didn't. (*Betty remained in the car at the close encounter field.) 

Dr. Simon: He described them to you, didn’t he? 

Betty Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: You mean he didn't describe them? He might as well have. 

Betty Hill: He said that they were wearing uniforms. Or he thought they were uniforms. 

Dr. Simon: Um-huh. 

Betty Hill: And he said that their leader looked down at him and frightened him, and that there was another man. And it looked as if they were pulling levers on the wall in back of the leader. 

Dr. Simon: This was at the time? This wasn't later that he told you this. 

Betty Hill: No, not at that moment. 

Dr. Simon: But it was during that evening? Was it, or was it at some time after you had gotten home? 

Betty Hill: It was after we got home. 

Dr. Simon: So, at that time he didn't tell you anything about it? 

Betty Hill: No, he didn't. 

Dr. Simon: Did he describe…? Yes, go on. 

Betty Hill: He did say…..he kept… I had the idea that there was… He must have seen someone even though he didn't say so, because he kept saying, "They are going to capture us." He didn't say, "It was going to.”  

Dr. Simon: I see…he was quite frightened. 

Betty Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: And were you frightened? 

Betty Hill: No, I don't think so, not at that time. I was curious and interested, and I had a feeling of being sort of helpless…that something was going to happen, and I didn't have too much control over it. But I wasn't really afraid. I was looking forward to it. 

Dr. Simon: You were looking forward to something happening? 

Betty Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: What sort of thing did you look forward to happening? 

Betty Hill: I didn't know what was going to happen. 

Dr. Simon: Some new experience? 

Betty Hill: Um-huh. 

Dr. Simon: Now when you were supposedly on board, you say that he put this needle into your navel. 

Betty Hill: He did. 

Dr. Simon: Was there any blood? 

Betty Hill: Not to my knowledge. (*Her dress lining has stains in the area of her navel that appear to be blood. It did not penetrate the outer lining of the dress.)

Dr. Simon: Did you find anything after you were home that would indicate that something had been put in your navel? Was there any scab or scar or anything that you could see? 

Betty Hill: (Long pause) I don't remember looking. 

Dr. Simon: You didn't think of looking? 

Betty Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: Well, you wouldn't know, and now there is nothing, I take it? 

Betty Hill: I don't think so. (*However, there is a stain on the lining of Betty’s dress, in the area of her navel that has undergone DNA analysis. It is not present on the outer fabric, only on the lining. It is Betty’s DNA. This suggests that her dream and hypnotic memory are accurate.) 

Dr. Simon: When the leader was talking with you, he spoke in English, you said. 

Betty Hill: Um-huh. 

Dr. Simon: And yet, he seemed to be of some foreign origin. 

Betty Hill: Um-hum. 

Dr. Simon: And he didn't know a good many things. 

Betty Hill: Yes, and he had an accent. (*Betty is probably confabulating information from her dreams or making an erroneous assumption. They communicated with her telepathically.) 

Dr. Simon: He had an accent. Do you have any idea what kind of accent this was? Spanish have one kind. French have another. Japanese have one kind…peculiarities in their use of English… letters that they cannot pronounce. 

Betty Hill: No, I tried… I don't know what kind it was. But the examiner had a worse accent than the leader. 

Dr. Simon: Did you ask these people their names? 

Betty Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: Why not? 

Betty Hill: I didn't think of it. 

Dr. Simon: You didn't think of it? 

Betty Hill: They didn't ask me my name either. But they knew Barney's name. I kept saying Barney's name. 

Dr. Simon: They knew Barney's name (Unintelligible) did they? (*He talks over Betty) And you and Barney did not talk about these experiences afterwards? 

Betty Hill: Right afterwards? 

Dr. Simon: Well, at any time afterwards. You said that you didn't talk about it on your way home. 

Betty Hill: No, we didn't. 

Dr. Simon: But you did tell him about it afterwards, didn’t you? 

Betty Hill: Well, I told him…Well, when I had the dreams… 

Dr. Simon: When you had the dreams. 

Betty Hill: Yuh. I told him I was having nightmares. Well, they really weren't nightmares, but they were strange dreams, and but, I didn't tell him about my dreams at that time. And then, when Mr. Hohmann and Mr. Jackson came to the house, and we were trying to… I think it was Mr. Hohmann asked us why the trip took so long to come home. And that's when I said I remembered about the moon being on the ground. 

Dr. Simon: The moon was on the ground? 

Betty Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Is this that big yellow object or the light that you saw? 

Betty Hill: It was just like a big moon, and it was on the ground, and I could see it through the trees in front of it. 

Dr. Simon: And Barney heard all of these things that you told them? 

Betty Hill: When they said, "What took so long?" I said, we didn't know what took so long, but then I started to think about the moon being on the ground. And I mentioned seeing this and Barney said, "Yah" he had seen it too. Then we thought that we should check and see what time the moon set that night, and see if it was the moon, or what it was. And while we were talking about this, I got quite upset and I don't know if I showed this or not, but when this happened I had the feeling that… I thought of my dreams. And I thought that well, maybe there was some basis of fact in these dreams that I had been having. Maybe this is what took so long. (*The Hills looked for this area prior to their hypnosis sessions, but they did not find it until Labor Day Weekend 1965. 

Dr. Simon: Now your dreams. 

Betty Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: They were what? Were they the same as this experience that you felt you had? The dreams were of being taken aboard this vehicle. 

Betty Hill: They were as if… The dreams were something like it, but not… There were still a lot of differences. 

Dr. Simon: What were the differences? Your memory is sharp now. You can compare it all. 

Betty Hill: Well, (*Long pause) ...In my dreams…the one of being captured… I could see the men in the road. And then they were trying to pull me onto this object. And it seems as though, in my dreams, I walked up some steps. And the ah…I did……..there was… Oh, I did in my dream… I dreamed of them putting this needle into my navel. I dreamed this, and in my dreams, this was much more vivid than it was here. Because in my dreams I was in intense pain, and I woke myself up moaning. 

Dr. Simon: You did wake up moaning? 

Betty Hill: Yes, I did. And I don't think…I didn't have…In my dreams I was in terrible pain. 

Dr. Simon: Did that wake Barney up? 

Betty Hill: He wasn't there. He was working nights. 

Dr. Simon: He was working nights? 

Betty Hill: Yuh. 

Dr. Simon: Do you talk in your sleep? 

Betty Hill: (Laughs) I don't know. Once in a while, like this... I felt as though I had woken myself up moaning. 

Dr. Simon: Well, some of these dreams you did have when Barney was there, didn't you? 

Betty Hill: No, I think he was working nights. (*This is correct. He was working nights in Boston.)

Dr. Simon: You mean every time you dreamed he was working nights?

 

Betty Hill: Yuh.

 

Dr. Simon: Well, did you tell him about your dreams?

 

Betty Hill: I told him I had dreams, but he would, ah… He didn't want anything to do with them. You know he wanted…uh, he didn't want anything said about them. 

Dr. Simon: Did you tell someone else your dreams? 

Betty Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Who did you tell? 

Betty Hill: Well, I was very puzzled by all this and my supervisor ah,…you see, my supervisor in child welfare comes out of the state office, oh…maybe three days in two weeks. Well, when she was going to be in Portsmouth for two days in a row, she would stay overnight, and Barney was working nights, so she and I would usually go out to eat, and she would come back to the house, and we'd sit around and talk. And so, ah…. we did this for a while and then, I don't know, I brought it up because this was bothering me.  And I showed her the report that Walter Webb had written, and she was very, very interested. And she seemed to be open-minded about it. And ah, and very interested, and then I told her about the dreams, and we would talk about them once in a while. And she said, one day she told me…she said, "Well Betty, for heaven’s sake why don't you realize that this has actually happened to you?" 

Dr. Simon: She was the one that said it actually happened to you? 

Betty Hill: Yuh, she said that this must have happened to you because, if it had not happened, then you wouldn't be reacting this way. 

Dr. Simon: You mean you wouldn't be dreaming about it? 

Betty Hill: And, and, and… I wouldn't have this concern about it. I would say, "Well, it was a dream and forget it."  And then I began to feel that something had happened. I wasn't sure what it was, but it…you know, there was something more than I could actually truthfully say I could remember. 

Dr. Simon: Now, sometime, was she the only one you told your dreams to? 

Betty Hill: The uh… I told my sister Janet. 

Dr. Simon: What'd you do? 

Betty Hill: My sister Janet. 

Dr. Simon: Your sister Janet. 

Betty Hill: And I mentioned them probably once in a while. 

Dr. Simon: How about Dot? 

Betty Hill: Who? My super… 

Dr. Simon: Your neighbor. 

Betty Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: No? 

Betty Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: Well, did you tell anyone about these dreams in Barney's presence? 

Betty Hill: I think he must have overheard me talk about them. 

Dr. Simon: He heard you talk about them? 

Betty Hill: Yuh. 

Dr. Simon: Then he really did know about your experiences, didn't he? 

Betty Hill: He knew, ah, some of it, I think, you know…he must have heard me say something about them to somebody. 

Dr. Simon: Now, in all these things that you feel happened, did it not happen in your dreams? Couldn't this all have been your dreams? 

Betty Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: Why do you feel so sure of it? 

Betty Hill: Because of the discrepancies. 

Dr. Simon: Now, tell me the discrepancies. Couldn't it be in the… Well now, we know your supervisor told you it must have happened. Up until then, you couldn't believe it. 

Betty Hill: I couldn't…yuh. 

Dr. Simon: Now after she told you that, you believed it happened. Now what were the discrepancies? 

Betty Hill: Oh, I had the feeling… 

Dr. Simon: You know about the discrepancies because you couldn't remember this experience, you told me. 

Betty Hill: Well, I knew what I had dreamed. 

Dr. Simon: Yes. 

Betty Hill: And, but… It was different. This was different. 

Dr. Simon: What makes it different? 

Betty Hill: There's so much more in… (*Hesitates.) 

Dr. Simon: Suppose that so much more had been part of dreams that you couldn't remember. One doesn't always remember all of their dreams. Isn't that possible? 

Betty Hill: I don't know. 

Dr. Simon: In other words, the dreams that you could remember did not have everything that you were able to tell me. Is that right? 

Betty Hill: That's true. 

Dr. Simon: But if you were able to tell me all of your dreams, including the parts that you couldn't remember, would that fit in? 

Betty Hill: No, because some things were different. 

Dr. Simon: Some things were different. 

Betty Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Well, could it be then, that when you remembered the dreams, some things were different? Were just remembered differently because you were afraid to remember everything? 

Betty Hill: You mean in my dreams? I would have been afraid to remember? 

Dr. Simon: No, when you tried to remember your dreams. Do you follow me? 

Betty Hill: I don't know. 

Dr. Simon: You remember dreams… some parts of them, and sometimes, you forget parts of dreams because you are fearful. You know that, I think, from your own training. 

Betty Hill: Um-huh. 

Dr. Simon: And then, there might be some parts of dreams that are misremembered for the same reason. Is that possible? 

Betty Hill: Well, in my dream I walked up steps and here I didn't walk up steps. I walked up a ramp.

Dr. Simon: Is that of any significance, do you think? 

Betty Hill: I don't know but, but… (*Dr. Simon talks over her.) 

Dr. Simon: The fact that you walked up. (*My comparative analysis in Captured! indicates that there were significant discrepancies between Betty's dreams and the specific detailed information that she and Barney remembered.)

Betty Hill: But the map, I could almost, I mean here…I think if I could draw it, I think I could draw the map. (*She is referring to the star map that she observed. After several years and many unsuccessful attempts Marjorie Fish identified the stars on the map. She could only do this because we had made technological progress and had better distance data.) 

Dr. Simon: Do you want to try and draw the map? Well, if you remember some of this after you leave me, why don't you draw… try to draw the map. Don't do anything that you might feel concerned or anxious about, but do draw some, draw whatever you can, and bring it to me next time. All right? 

Betty Hill: I'll try to. 

Dr. Simon: It doesn't have to be handsome, but don't feel that you're compelled to do it. 

Betty Hill: Okay. 

Dr. Simon: And if you feel that way, and also, some of these other things. Now… what other discrepancies? You mentioned the difference between the ramp and the stairs. 

Betty Hill: I'm pretty uh…there's so much more here. 

Dr. Simon: But there's more in what you told me than there was in the dream. Is that right? 

Betty Hill: Oh yes. 

Dr. Simon: It could be that all of that extra that you remembered were parts of the dream that you didn't remember. Couldn't it? 

Betty Hill: No, I don't think so. 

Dr. Simon: Why don't you think so? 

Betty Hill: Because I think… I know you can dream and not remember but… 

Dr. Simon: (*Talks over Betty) How can you account in this experience for these men who seem to speak our language, and yet, didn't know a lot of things about it? Like dentures and aging and things like that, and routines? You thought they came from another world, I take it?  Didn't you? 

Betty Hill: Um-huh. Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Then how would they know about this? How could that happen? Have you tried to explain that to yourself? 

Betty Hill: How did they speak English? 

Dr. Simon: How did this happen that they could communicate with you in this way? And yet, they were not of this world? 

Betty Hill: …………(*Long pause.) They'd evidently been studying us. 

Dr. Simon: But that would mean that they'd have to come here and know us, and everything else, wouldn't it? 

Betty Hill: Um-huh. Yup. They probably…maybe they picked up some radio stations. 

Dr. Simon: But in our dreams this could all happen. Things don't have to be explained in a dream. Did you feel that they could communicate with you in any other way than words? Were they able to transfer thoughts? 

Betty Hill: ………. (Long pause) ……They …I don't know about thoughts. 

Dr. Simon: Do you believe that thoughts can be transferred? 

Betty Hill: Yes, to a certain extent. 

Dr. Simon: Have you been able to transfer your thoughts to anyone or receive someone else's thoughts? 

Betty Hill: Yes, Barney and I are always saying the same thing at the same time. I mean this type of thing. 

Dr. Simon: Well, do you communicate in any other ways? Could you have communicated all of this to Barney by thought transference? 

Betty Hill: No. (*Laughs) No, I don't. Not to that extent. I mean, like sometimes, I used to have a teacher in college, and I would sit in the front row, and if I was bored, I'd think, "Scratch your face." You know and like "Scratch your leg." And then, wait to see how long it would take him to do it. You know… play around like this. 

Dr. Simon: Um-huh. So, you wanted to see how much power there was in thought. 

Betty Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: But you had no such communication between yourself and these strangers? 

Betty Hill: …………. (Long pause) I don't know if I did hear them in English. 

Dr. Simon: Or you didn't hear them in English. 

Betty Hill: (Becomes congested and if welling up in tears) I don't know. 

Dr. Simon: How do you think you heard them then? 

Betty Hill: I've been telling myself that I heard them in English, but I'm upset that I don't know. 

Dr. Simon: So, was it in any language or was it by thought transference? 

Betty Hill: I knew what they were saying. 

Dr. Simon: You knew what they were saying? 

Betty Hill: And they knew what I was saying. 

Dr. Simon: All right, this won't trouble you. It's all right. Well, do you think that it was by some form of thought transference? 

Betty Hill: It could have been. But if it was, I knew what they were thinking. 

Dr. Simon: You knew what they were thinking?…. (*Pause) Now you rather liked this leader, didn't you? 

Betty Hill: I was afraid of him at first. 

Dr. Simon: But afterwards? 

Betty Hill: Well, when I … you know…when I began to feel that they weren't going to harm me… 

Dr. Simon: So, it all works out that you are not harmed, and everything was all right. 

Betty Hill: Yuh. 

Dr. Simon: All right now. Now, after this, it will not be necessary for you to forget everything that goes on here. But you will remember those parts that you can remember without being upset, without being worried and bothered. Do you understand? 

Betty Hill: Um-huh. 

Dr. Simon: It will not trouble you, and as we go along, it will bother you less and less. You will be able to remember only those things that you can remember, without anxiety and without fear. And we will be able to talk more and more about it in that way. But, in the meantime, you will not be troubled by any of the things that you do remember and gradually it will come back more and more, and you will be able to talk about it more and more. Is that clear? 

Betty Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: And as always, whenever I say, "Trance Betty" you will go into a deep trance and obey all of my commands. You will have no fear and no anxiety. You will be comfortable and relaxed, and we will recall these things and discuss them together. You will have no fear and no anxiety. I'll see you again a week from today. Is that all right? All right, wake Betty. How do you feel now? 

Betty Hill: All right. 

Dr. Simon: Do you know what… (Tape ends) 

After the Hills have left Dr. Simon's office he dictated: There seems to be more and more indication of an experience, a great deal of which was absorbed by Barney Hill from Betty in spite of his insistence that this was his own. And there are definite indications that the notion that her dreams had been suggested as a reality by her supervisor. The implications are self-evident, and it is planned now to continue these interviews at a more conscious level. Both appear to have been remembering more after these sessions. (*Dr. Simon continues to insist upon his dream hypothesis despite the Hills’ documented statements to Pease Air Force Base and NICAP investigator Walter Webb, and the physical and circumstantial evidence. The Hills steadfastly insist that he is incorrect. I believe that we should place greater emphasis upon their conscious recall and physical evidence and on the hypnosis sessions.)